this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2025
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"If Europe suddenly wants to start a war with us and starts it," Putin said, then it would end so swiftly for Europe that there would be no one to negotiate with in Europe. Putin used the Russian word for "war". He also suggested that the war in Ukraine was not a full-blown war and that Russia was acting in a "surgical" manner which would not be repeated in a direct confrontation with European powers. "If Europe suddenly wants to fight with us and starts, we are ready right now," Putin said.

NOTE: imo there is a lot of saber-rattling going on lately. Its all part of the political game. Pls let's keep our heads cool with clickbait titles and speculations. I can sympathise with the worries and that these are trying times for us.

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[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 22 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

How can he say that when they can't even win a war against Ukraine?

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

First rule about compulsive liars: There is always a bigger lie. Especially when your last lie is exposed.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Simply because he has no problem to send millions of people as cannon fodder against EU, like he is doing in Ukraine.

And in his mind, as long as he is alive, he win. Never mind if his country is destroyed.

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There are only so many Russians to be sent as cannon fodder before you run out entirely.

Trying to do what's being done in Ukraine with multiple fronts? Zero chance of any success.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There are only so many Russians to be sent as cannon fodder before you run out entirely.

True, but probably they are more than the ones EU can send.

Trying to do what’s being done in Ukraine with multiple fronts? Zero chance of any success.

From a pure logical point of view you are right, but in reality there is nothing that prevent him to do it. Which do not imply that he can win obviously, he just need to be able to go on longer than EU.

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean, Europe minus Russia has what, like 4x the population of all of Russia?

Russia would be stretched dangerously thin trying to fight on multiple fronts, it's already putting serious strain on their whole nation.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 1 points 1 week ago

Yes, Eu has roughly 4x the population of Russia but I don't think EU is willing to use its population as cannon fodder, while Putin will do it without any second thought.

Russia would be stretched dangerously thin trying to fight on multiple fronts, it’s already putting serious strain on their whole nation.

True, but I am not sure that this would be a problem for Putin, he would not care about it as long as he can keep his rhetoric

[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

But he apparently can't win a war doing so in one country. what would make his thread more realistic when attacking a union of countries?

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 1 points 2 weeks ago

Was not yet finished. And, aside him being alive at the end, every concession to Russia is a win for him, And to pull the trick again sometime in the future.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

iiuc, some analysts say bluff, others say it makes clear Putler doesn't want peace, others say Putler, Chinan, NK and Iran want to proactively destabilise Western democracy in order to create a new world order. I'm inclined to conclude, probably all the above mentioned reasons. And, to my dismay, depending on how one looks, they've been petty successful in their long-term plans.

From a neg. pov:

  • destabilising EU: corrupted national and EU politicians, Brexit, Hungary, Slovenia; Invasion & annexations Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia.
  • destabilising USA: supported and influencing US politics and the rise of Trump.
  • Africa: destabilising sahel region, rising Ruso-Sino influence, Suez canal.
  • Middle-East: destabilising Syiria

From a pos.pov.:

  • rallied democracies to become more unified; i ncreased decoupling of delivery chains, more independent critical elements & scrutiny concerning Western and Ruso-Sino economic ties.
  • awakened awareness of dependencies and fragility of democracies in all continents ( who's friend and foe).
  • push for more ( green) energy and technological autonomy

It's now all in flux and there is a strong momentum now, indicating that the outcome will be maybe decided in the next 1 -5 years. Have most probably missed many things..This is just my take after reading some analysis.

[–] anomnom@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

The only possible missing ingredient is if Putin has a terminal illness and unfettered control of Russia’s nuclear arms. Similar problem with Trump, but his dementia will hopefully prevent the worst as he’ll lose the ability to make those decisions, and his handlers presumably want a continued existence on this planet (for now).

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

You mean the same France, Uk and USA had ?

Putin is not stupid enough to not understand that if he ever try to use a nuke he will be the first target of the retaliation.

He is, however, an old and dying man full of hate.

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

France or the UK would not start a nuclear war with Russia over the Baltic states, Poland, or Finland, as that would spell their own demise. Nor would they do so for Germany, Italy, or Sweden. And the US cannot be relied upon.

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You're under the impression that France, the UK and the US would stand idly by as nukes start to drop around the globe?

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not idly. But they would not use their nuclear bombs.

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm convinced that if one nuke drops, then they will all start dropping at a rapid rate.

This is why no one ever actually uses them, because as soon as you do, it's game over

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That would lead to the complete destruction of France/UK. Why would they do that?

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Russia dropping nukes on other countries would lead to the complete destruction of Russia. Why would they do that?

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why would it lead to the complete destruction of Russia?

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why would other nuclear powers stand idly by once Russia drops nukes?

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago

Because a nuclear retaliation by France or the UK against Russia would result in the destruction of France and the UK. Imagine this scenario: Moscow drops a nuclear bomb on a major European city. Do you think Macron would stand up in front of the French people and say: β€œThis means the end for all of us, but we will now take revenge on Russia”?

Strategic nuclear weapons have only one purpose: to protect one's own existence from other nuclear weapons in a tit-for-tat principle. They are completely unsuitable for supporting allies, because their existence is always considered less relevant than one's own.

One exception was the Cold War, when the US considered NATO and the Soviets considered the Warsaw Pact to be their quasi-property.

[–] richardwonka@mas.to 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

@Aequitas - that was what we all thought throughout the cold war.

Songs were written about this.

Yet here we are - again.

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -2 points 1 week ago

France and the UK did not use nuclear weapons during the Cold War. And the US explicitly and unambiguously extended nuclear deterrence to the entire NATO territory. But that is no longer the case. France and the UK would have more interest in dishonoring the alliance for existential reasons alone, as long as they themselves are not bombed. But from the US perspective, the Europeans were vassal states. An attack on them had to be seen in the US as an attack on its own territory. The same does not apply from a French or British perspective. Anyone who thinks that they would risk their existence for an act of revenge against Russia is living in La-La Land.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I agree, they would not start. But if Russia start, they surely will retaliate: a nuke in the baltic states or even nearer will cause harm also to them. And France has a strange nuclear doctrine.

[–] Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Technically is called "warning shot"....

[–] Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Same thing.....

[–] Aequitas@feddit.org -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why would they? That would mean the end of France/UK or even of humanity.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 2 points 1 week ago

True. Problem is: how do you respond to someone that use a nuke ? If Russia use a nuke, it is the end either way: if other retaliate the situation escalates, if they do not retaliate Russia think they have free hand.

During the cold war the only thing that prevented a nuclear escalation is the certainty of mutual destruction, nothing else.

[–] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 1 points 1 week ago

It'd make more sense to nuke Ukraine as they have no way to retaliate.