become profitable when needed
By what, laying off all QA and support staff and half your developers the moment a single quarterly earnings report isn't spotlessly gilded?
this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2025
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Nerds stop recommending corporate crap: challenge: impossible
I never really understood the point of using Tailscale over plain ol' WireGuard. I mean I guess if youve got a dozen+ nodes but I feel like most laymens topologies won't be complex beyond a regular old wireguard config
Same thing here, either tailscale selfhosted or Netbird selfhosted I'd the way to go for all the nice features, having the free tier or tailscale for personal data never sounded right to me.
NAT punching and proxying when a p2p connection between any 2 nodes cannot be achieved. It’s a world of difference with mobile devices when they always see each other, all the time. However, headscale does all that.
Wireguard doesn't do NAT/Firewall traversal nor does it have SSO
Tailscale manages the underlying Wireguard for you. I would be great if Wireguard had native NAT traversal but that isn't the case.
And here I am, still using OpenVPN in 2025 lol
Used to run OpenVPN. Tried Wireguard and the performance was much better, although lacking some of the features some might need/want fit credential-based logins etc
I can highly recommend Netbird selfhosted, it has SSO support, logins, complex network topologies, it uses wireguard under the hood and it's open source.
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Crap, I really need to switch of Tailscale but currently it is an easy way for me to access my stuff outside of home as a temporary solution while I am on a 5G modem.
I can recommend to take a look at netbird.io
Much more user friendly
Json is awful for config
Crockford is a good and smart person but he really dropped the fucking ball on JSON.
Double-quotes-only and no comments kill the whole spec for me. Extremely opinionated and dumb. I fucking hate JSON.
My boss once sent me a machine generated config. He's terminally addicted to double-quotes (like, a fatal condition). I searched and there were 27k sequences of \".
Edit: my point is - all that compute and network wasted, every single time the file is requested and parsed. Completely pointless waste
I can't. I tried it first and installed it on my phone from f-droid. After opening it up, it connected to an already existing network with other people's old machines from years ago on it. I was horrified.
So then I tried to delete my whole account and couldn't due to an error. I sent them an email about it and they took like two weeks to respond.
Netbird isn't on F-droid
Are we talking about the same thing?
It used to be
It has never been on F-droid. I've been following the service since it started. It didn't even have a mobile app not that long ago.
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Ok and?
Join our Discord server for a chat and community support.
Sigh...
And even worse:
Everything in Tailscale is Open Source, except the GUI clients for proprietary OS (Windows and macOS/iOS), and the control server.
everything is open source except half of all things.
Lol
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I think I'll just keep using tailscale until they start enshittifying, and then set up a Headscale instance on a VPS - no need to take this step ahead of time, right?
I mean, all the people saying they can avoid any issues by doing the above - what's to stop Tailscale dropping support for Headscale in future if they're serious about enshitification? Their Linux & Android clients are open source, but not IOS or Windows so they could easily block access for them.
My point being - I'll worry when there is something substantial to worry about, til then they can know I'm using like 3 devices and a github account to authenticate. MagicDNS and the reliability of the clients is just too good for me to switch over mild funding concerns.
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I just replaced my entire setup with base wireguard as a challenge, easier than I expected it to be, and not hard to mimic tailscale.
If you just have to talk from many devices to the one server sure, but Tailscale sure makes it easy for many to many. Also if a direct connection is impossible (e.g. firewall of china, CGNAT etc) tailscale puts a relay server in the middle for you.
My entire setup might not be your entire setup, I have the basic functionality of connecting multiple systems into one mesh network. That's all I needed so it's all I did.
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I'm unsure if it has been mentioned, but a similar tool which is open source (you can run the backend unlike tailscale), netbird
Is there an issue with Netbird's servers at the moment? In my testing devices are connected and reach eachother, but the web admin is missing a lot of functionality compared to what's in the docs. The peer devices section is there, but everything else, user settings, rules etc, isn't showing/says I don't have admin permission (of my own account.. Lol?)
Honestly, no idea, worth checking their GitHub etc or their status pages if they have any
We've implemented netbird at my company, we're pretty happy with it overall.
The main drawback is that it has no way of handling multiple different accounts on the same machine, and they don't seem to have any plans for ever really solving that. As long as you can live with that, it's a good solution.
Support is a mixed bag. Mostly just a slack server, kind of lacking in what I'd call enterprise level support. But development seems to be moving at a rapid pace, and they're definitely in that "Small but eager" stage where everything happens quickly. I've reported bugs and had them fixed the same day.
Everything is open source. Backend, clients, the whole bag. So if they ever try to enshittify, you can just take your ball and leave.
Also, the security tools are really cool. Instead of writing out firewall rules by hand like Tailscale, they have a really nice, really simple GUI for setting up all your ACLs. I found it very intuitive.
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a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed
Switch to self-hosting headscale when they enshittify in an attempt to become profitable, duh
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