Religion: Wrong about everything, everywhere all at once.
this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025
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A new government after the revolution. What is the first thing they do? Try to fix what is broken? No, oppress women some more!
Well any hope for the new government to be reasonable went right out the window.
It was never going to be a liberal government. The rule is conservative dreck, make no mistake, but the norm was already for burkinis and other such swimsuits to be worn. It's not a radical departure from extant behavior.
My concern, going forward, is more towards whether the government will resolve itself in a reasonably democratic way.
I'm not holding out hopes for a Tunisia, but a Jordan or Lebanon might be reasonable to cross one's fingers for.
Never thought I'd see Tunisia mentioned as a beacon of democracy and/or progressiveness. It's just as oppressive there, just in the opposite direction. People are getting harrassed by police for going to friday prayers. Establishments seat you in the back for wearing headscarves, if you even get to enter. Source: got family there
I mean I wouldn't call it a beacon of democracy, but all things are relative. I picked one of the more reasonable polities in MENA with a mostly-functioning multiparty system. The alternative would've been saying I hoped for Turkiye, but, uh, considering Erdogan's behavior, I wasn't sure I wanted to make that comparison as a positive.
My point is simply that there is still hope for Syria to improve into something better than it was - and certainly better than some immensely calcified repressive regime like Iran or the Saudis, and that this... immensely distasteful conservative dreck does not necessarily sink that hope.
We look for Syria to take a step forward, not to become Sweden in a decade (though that would, obviously, also be immensely welcome; just less likely). Institutions are built a year at a time, a battle at a time, not all once.
Not that it matters that much anyway, HTS is essentially a joint puppet project by Turkey and the USA.
As long as whoever is in charge follows their geopolitical demands, they really won't care how they handle the internal country.
Still at least it's a significant upgrade from Assad. Anyone would take this over chemical weapon civil war again.
We used to have considerably-more-restrictive rules on women's swimwear ourselves in the US, not that long ago.
A "beach cop" measures bathing suits in Washington, D.C., in 1922.
Dude's backed by trump, Erdogan and Saudis, did you expect him to be liberal?
christ, what a shithole. i would rather blow my brains out than ever be forced to wear a "burkini"
On the bright side, less skin cancer.
Probably more drownings though :(
Hey, at least your husband can’t beat you when you’re dead!
I’ll see myself out.
Not good because no one should tell wear anyone what to wear or what not to wear. Let’s not forget the obsession of conservatives and even liberals with banning hijabs and niqabs in the western world under the guise of "liberating“ women. I find it ridiculous that the whole world seems obsessed with telling women how to dress.
Anyway, this is definitely a hint at the society they imagine and I don’t think it’s a good direction. On the other hand I think westerners don’t understand the Middle East either.
The Middle East is very much class divided and the upper class wouldn’t go to public beaches anyway, while middle class and below is usually very conservative, no matter which religion or even if not religious.
That’s why even without this ban you wouldn’t really see women in a bikini on public beaches because that’s not the culture. You can find it good or bad but that’s how the culture is. Even in Tunisia which people love mentioning it’s not a common thing.
If you go to hotels it’s gonna be different because that’s where all the rich locals will go to be on their own and usually they have a more "western" lifestyle. To illustrate, not even in hotels in Saudi Arabia would they enforce such a dress code (we’re talking about luxury hotels here) because money talks.
I don't labor under the belief that anyone operating in an area that fraught with fundamentalist religious groups controlling all key functions of society actually KNOW what their own culture is. If half your population can't speak freely, you don't have an accurate view of your people's beliefs.
Yeah I mean that’s definitely true but I think it’s also very western centric to assume that everyone will automatically start stripping naked just because they can. I certainly don’t even though I absolutely can, and I don’t wanna take it away from anyone. It’s just not what I wanna do.
Yeah I'd agree with the idea that a society historically repressed would slingshot to nude beaches right away. I just wouldn't make commentary on how likely a populace of oppressed people might seek freedoms and make the same mistake of assuming what their culture is when neither of us has heard what the people of said country wants.
I mean I’m from the Middle East just fucked off from there a while ago
And my neighbors are rural Trumpers. I still don't grasp what the hell it is they're after.
Big data, plot points from individuals, statistical regressions. That's what you need to make those claims. If not, it's personal anecdotes, personal anecdotes from someone who lived in the geographical region, yes, but just anecdotes.
Fair enough, I don’t think you understand how different middle eastern societies are though from your individualistic American society. It’s normal to have 10 siblings and literally 100s of cousins and uncles/aunts. It’s normal to have family spread across the entire Middle East, the entire world actually. Our diaspora communities are huge, we have friends from all kinds of places and we talk a lot. In the end all I can offer you is a perspective, take it or leave it and most importantly enjoy your day!