Its not about converting the crackpots, its about pushing back on insane bullshit so others are less likely to become crackpots.
this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2026
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This is why dissent is important. Visibility.
Agreed. Where do you draw the line between downvoting and potentially feeding the trolls? I'm having a hard time with that. When someone is acting like an ignorant contrarian, I'm inclined to ignore them.
I start off with the logic, and when they double down on bullshit and toxicity I just keep spotlighting the terrible rhetoric with no substance. In a "like damn dude, your 3rd grade teacher would be disappointed in your writing" way.
You have to out dumb them and take away their argument.
Vaccines cause autism? It’s caused by aliens to force us to build another pyramid so they can land their ship here to harvest the squirrels.
I hold myself to slightly higher standards. I'm not above insulting and throwing toxicity back, but I am honest about it to stop it from undercutting my argumentation.
I feel like there's a certain point where you're no longer pushing back against the crackpots and just arguing with a brick wall.
You're never going to change their minds. That's not the point. The point is to push back against them. So people who see the interaction will see the rebuttal and the pushback against the insanity. That's the important part.
I'm not writing to the crackpot I'm responding to. I'm writing to the lurkers on the fence wondering if he has a valid point.
That might be why I'm so used to replies that look like long-form essays. It takes a lot more words to explain nuance and invite critical thought than it does to shitpost.
I've had cases where I've moved the needle. Got someone to move from "I hate communism!!" to "I see where you're coming from. Capitalism has problems, I admit".
For some people, you need to let them feel heard and avoid being too antagonistic.
Some people are just trolls, though.
I managed to convert a "god put dinosaur fossils in the ground 6000 years ago to test us," person once, although she was already questioning things so I led her to the right answer.
You don't change the view of the person you are arguing with on the internet, you are putting a red flag so that would-be readers don't fall into the rabbit hole.
Online debate is fun. I don't care if it falls short of solving the worlds problems.
Online debate isn't fun. I care if it falls short of solving the world's problems.
Online debate is fun
Most online disagreements can hardly be characterized as a "debate". Most of the time it's some contrarian shitlord arguing in bad faith, fishing for gotchas, moving goalposts, refusing to acknowledge reality, and/or pretending your posts mean something other than what they say.
I'm not a crackpot, I saw that gnome with my own two eyes they're fucking real and they're plotting against us.
If you saw anyone else hanging around a garden or forest you might say they're gardening, foraging, vibing, touching grass, or waiting until their mortal body is reclaimed by nature. But when it's a gnome they have to be plotting?
If you treat them like you would any other magical creature, spent some time to get to know them, you'd see just how wrong you were. Spend a little less time pondering your orb and little more time out in the real world.
Besides, if you examine the statistics, you'd see that skinwalkers are the real problem. Despite making up only... But I can tell you aren't ready to be red potioned on that yet.
Bro I am literally a skinwalker and I can't believe you'd say something this racist to me. You know those statistics are skewed by the ministry to push their agenda.
I've found that, while you can't convince a crackpot of anything, you can study them like a scientific specimen and it can be quite interesting
Well, the alternative is a bunch of crackpot comments with no pushback (except downvotes) and 3-10x less actually-decent-takes
Everyone just wants an echo chamber and the internet is happy to oblige
You're so right.
"Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.
- Jonathan Swift, A Letter to a Young Gentleman, Lately Enter'd Into Holy Orders, 1721 C.E.
My rule to live by (and this seems to trigger people online for some reason whenever I say it): never engage with comments online. I'll post a comment, but >99% of the time there is no reason to reply. Someone has to make it abundantly clear that they are responding in good faith to warrant a response. My life has been much better since I started doing this and I would strongly recommend everyone try it out.
I enjoy the banter back and forth until the person doubles down, then it’s over
Almost 100% of the replies you receive are in bad faith? Friend...
The number of threads that I’ve just completely abandoned on .ml when I realize I’m trying to reason with morons is too damn high.
Going to .ml looking for an enlightened discussion is like going to the zoo looking for a glory hole.
I blocked ml just this morning after such an exchange. It's noticeable immediately 😂
Having a real discussion online seems exceedingly rare. Like where each person really wants to find the flaws in their own position, to either strengthen it or learn why it can't be.
It's rare but it's there, and when you genuinely find someone who will take your points and offer their perspective in return it can be a glorious thing.
It lives in the internet it lives in the internet oh god help me it lives in the internet
I wonder if the crackpots ever ask themselves am I the crackpot?
Asking for a friend
no, it never does, i mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... but it might work for us.
In the dark times of late 2023 I had long discussions with Israel apologists on here, now they don’t seem to exist anymore. Question is, if they actually changed their mind or if they just left, and if my comments had anything to do with that anyway ofc.
They probably got called up
That reminds me, I really must check my inbox
I never commented much, apart from here and in reddit, when it still was a thing. Currently I try to avoid even looking into the comment section. It' just not worth it.
Ahh yes the crackpot belief that it is wrong to support a genocide regardless of who is in power.
It was never about winning.
It was always about getting shit off on strangers for self-gratification, and public shaming for reprehensible behaviours/ beliefs.
How else are they supposed to virtue signal?
I'm honestly not a big fan of virtue signaling, but maybe that's just me. I just don't think dramatically stating an obviously popular opinion, like you're some sacrificial martyr, really adds much to the discussion. Crucify me in the comments, if you must!
No, I won't.
Fuck your "reason", people covet their own logical prowess but in reality they didn't come to their views on their own nor their way of seeing things on their own. In fact, it's a weakness borrowed from others, based on flawed methodology and is what got you into the situation you're in now.
I ain't teaching a class, believe me or don't, I dgaf.
99% of people are mostly interested in confirming their own myopic view, to the degree that they will commit violence to ensure it. If someone reaches out a hand, I will grab it, but that's exceedingly rare and it's not my day job to fish randos out of their own ignorance un-asked.
When you tell lemmy users that teachers joking about shooting their students is bad, actually.
That one was probably more about surveillance
No, they made it very clear they wanted teachers to be able to "joke" about shooting their students.
Well yeah if you aren't being surveiled you can joke or even "joke" about anything as long as someone doesn't take it seriously enough to report you