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I'm a cis male and I believe in the importance of feminism, but I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women's experiences as if I was part of the Me Too movement. In some binary sense given how hateful and shitty men can be I'm absolutely a feminist, but I wouldn't declare myself to be one. What is your standpoint?

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[–] GrantUsEyes@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago
[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago

I don't have a gender (I lost it somewhere, sorry), and I still call myself feminist.

I think feminism is something more related to the fight against a type of oppression rather than an identity thing.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't know.

My concern was always about showing respect to others, regardless of gender. I want for others what I want for myself.

I grew up surrounded by womens and, as a kid, I heard horrible stories about men behaviour but also heard countless dismissals from women to women about those same male behaviours.

As a teen, I became so concerned of my existence as a man, I went so deep into neutral and non threatning territory I had girls telling me I was being flirted with because otherwise I wouldn't notice nor correspond. I was quick to point out bad attitude/behaviour from guys towards girls as well, which did not make me popular with my peers.

As an adult, I started working under the supervision of women. No concern, no friction. I did became extremely aware how women would easily create and maintain terrible and damaging relations between them, for futile reasons. Even today, where I work at, where the majority of responsability roles are women, the way even polite conversations are held are laced with tension.

I reached a point where I act in accordance to my conciousness. I loathe disrespect, I get revolted by hearing anyone talk less of others. And I am learning to call others on their words and actions, regardless of gender.

I do recognize a lot of violence, of all kinds, is still enacted upon women because they are women, solely, but I am also aware a good deal is still dismissed and even abided by other women.

[–] WatermelonPaloma@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Feminism is about all genders having equal rights. Are any of your experiences with women reasons for them not to have rights? Their behavior as you've described it isn't really exclusive to women, nor does it seem like a reason to deny them rights.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 month ago

No and I don't think I've writen nothing that hinted in that sense.

What I tried to convey is that a good part of what is holding back women to achieve equality are other women and that is unreasonable to me.

Absolutely, but I also think it's not enough to just say you're this or that, you have to act on it. And Imho a lot of people's feminism starts and ends at declaring themselves feminist.

I tend to be fairly sensitive, and I haven't been very successful in quieting my own kneejerk defensiveness when "yes all men" and "male tears" come out. A lot of feminists are justifiably angry but I don't have to stay in a room where I don't feel welcome.

So I tend not to label myself a feminist even though I agree with feminists on most things. I vote for feminist candidates, I'll defend feminism when people tell lies about it, but I can't be a feminist myself because I can't participate in it.

[–] Gorillatactics@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago

Calling myself a feminist would be stolen valour.

[–] lil_tank@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I agree about avoiding knighting ourselves with the title of feminist because it's absolutely something some aggressors use to lower their target's guard, and because it's easy to call yourself something to gain social standing and then not deliver when the time comes

Otherwise absolutely do read feminist theory and act according to feminist convictions. Doing so without making it about yourself being one of the good ones only makes it better

[–] Sivecano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

I absolutely call myself a feminist even if the word isn't maybe entirely descriptive anymore.

This is our fight too.

[–] Krudler@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

I think in the purest sense yes, a general platform of equality for genders.

However I'm growing increasingly cynical and wary of continuing to advocate more in this direction. Not that it's inherently wrong, it's that the movement has been co-opted by the capitalists. Very swift to make sure women still bear all of their responsibilities, now also must enter the workforce in order to make a combined living family income. Yet no additional social supports. Men's gender roles changing in society, but absolutely no future planning or accommodation for what men are supposed to change into, or what role to take.

We are slaves and I think it's always important to remember that. We get the scraps we're allowed. And all of the forward progress isn't as forward as we want to self-smugly believe. We are still being played as the underclass.

[–] Cypher@aussie.zone 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No I’m not a feminist.

Feminism has had several waves with varying ideology behind it and I definitely don’t agree with all of the ideals espoused by feminists.

I’m a humanist egalitarian which better describes my position.

[–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago (5 children)

What ideals don't you agree with?

[–] stormdelay@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

I somewhat recognize my own position in the message above and to me it's not so much about not being a feminist, as it is that I've seen too many people calling themselves feminist while proceeding to do things like: call all men pigs, be transphobic, generally try to push down others in an attempt to rise themselves. If by feminist you mean "for equality between men and women (and all others)", then sure I can agree to that, but I'm not sure that's the best way to describe that position anymore

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[–] Wahots@pawb.social 4 points 1 month ago

Probably more egalitarian than feminist, just because of the bad branding over the years. Same principles still apply, though. Equal rights, equal pay, full maternity/paternity leave, equal draft laws, equal dress/beachwear, etc.

Having differences between genders has always rubbed me the wrong way. People are just people.

[–] nore@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

If Feminism is equality between genders, then yes, I am a feminist.
But if Feminism is unconditional trust towards women, then no, I'm not a feminist.

In my experience people who call themselves feminists often put women above men, and will deny any criticism towards them because they're women, and women never do anything bad.

[–] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 month ago

My interpretation of it equals to same standing. Both in duties as well as in wages.
A woman should get the same wage regardless of if they get a child or not.
Same Job? Same output? Same wage!

[–] observes_depths@aussie.zone 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Was going to say essentially this. It can really feel like the most outspoken feminists have a 'women good, men bad' mentality (of course many men are equally deranged).

The injustice towards women is absolutely greater, but look at health and happiness metrics and it looks like men are much worse off, and those two points are very much intertwined, a lot of cause and effect both ways (just my opinion and how I've made sense of everything). I think there's probably no such thing as womens problems or mens problems. Only human problems that bounce around and affect everyone.

[–] pieberry@lemmy.today 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I think there's probably no such thing as womens problems or mens problems. Only human problems that bounce around and affect everyone.

To your point, yes absolutely these issues affect us all, because we're all connected as humans. But you might want to reconsider how you phrase that. This has big "I don't see color" energy.

Both men and women absolutely have unique and specific issues that need recognition if we are to meaningfully address them.

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My opinion as another cis dude: there are three things at play. (1) What is the definition of "feminism?" If you believe that women and men and everybody in between and beyond are equally worthy members of society and should not be discriminated against in any way, then you fit my definition and can call yourself a feminist. (2) I recognize that this is a hot button issue for some people unfortunately. I also see that other people may operate under a different definition. I give shit to anybody with opinions on the matter that go against (1). I don't necessarily use the word "feminist" in that context because some words - good words! - have a way of closing people off like an oyster. "Woke" and "feminism" are two examples. Worthy concepts behind both in my view but the mere mention makes some people stop listening. Especially those who would benefit from widening their horizons. Humans are capable of rational thought but we don't always do or behave that way. I'm dogmatic in my opinion but I'm not dogmatic in the language that I use so I try and adjust it to fit the situation. (3) Even among supposed allies you'll find oddballs. You don't want to be a self-professed feminist who mansplains feminism, just as an example.

In this mixed minefield, I think I want to be judged more by my actions than the terms I use.

[–] LouNeko@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (8 children)

It's really hard to call yourself a feminist when you realize that all major achievements of western feminism aren't the direct result of activism but rather capitalism. To paraphrase DiCaprio's Character from Django, activism had their curiosity, the financial incentive had their attention.

Industries and governments realised that they were essentially not capitalizing on 50% of the population.

Women in the work force wasn't a noble grant of freedom, it was an increase in production and profit. If it were truly as noble as it is made out to be, they would've given them equal pay from the start.
Same thing goes for women being able to have their own bank account. Women having their own money means they will spend it, driving the economy. Even the right to vote just provides another angle of attack to influence and radicalize the population. Those are the 3 corner stones, work for capital and pay income tax, spend your money and pay sales tax and vote for whoever the TV tells you to vote. Everything else is just comfort to sweeten the deal. That's also why 3rd wave feminism has grinded to a halt. The is no capitalist financial incentive to give women even one more inch of freedom than they already have.

Women haven't won anything they've just gotten of the side lines, right into the corporate meatgrinder.

And now we're here, where a two head family can't afford to have a child because both members working 9-5 can barely support themselves financially, yet alone have the money or time to have a child. And neither corporations nor the government are eager to support them as if giving back even a single cent of profits is a cardinal sin.

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[–] majster@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 month ago

No. I think every sane person is against sexual harassment. Term has become so broad and there are many things under that label that I disagree with. And because its so broad and popular it has attracted all sorts of slimy politicians to it.

My eyes roll 720 degrees when I see prolific feminists addressing EU parliament and taking photos with all sorts of celebrities and politicians. At the same time there is loud silence when the most high profile sexual scandal comes out that involves one of the top politicians in the country. And the rest of "feminist" nomenclature just rolls with it domestically and internationally. Bunch of spineless politicians.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I would say yes, but the term is much less often used today than in the past and some people have very strange notions of what it means. I don't think I've ever had the need or opportunity to use it to describe myself, even though I would fit the reasonable definitions.

[–] ellypny@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago

I think the whole appeal of feminism for me, is the questioning and evaluation of rigid gender structures. I'm not sure if it's my place to call myself a feminist or not (since I'm non-binary). But I do think that feminism and queer issues are contiguous.

[–] Moonworm@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

When I thought of myself as a cis man I considered myself a feminist, but I didn't call myself one. Maybe I would've if someone asked directly, but no one ever did. Mostly there wasn't any reason to say so that wasn't performance; better to act and think in accordance with the principles than conspicuously claim it.

I believe that every human is a human with equally complex lives who all deserve equal opportunities and the right to self-determination regardless of gender, race, or any other uncontrollable factor.

So yes, I would consider myself to be a feminist.

[–] darthelmet@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yes, because I view it as part of being a socialist. Uniting the working class means uniting ALL of the working class, and we can only do that through mutual respect and acknowledging and trying to remedy existing biases.

Unfortunately liberal feminism co-opted the movement at the mainstream level and has used it to legitimize the status quo. The fact that there are TERFs or people who call themselves feminists but support capitalism, which impoverishes women, and imperialism, which kills women around the world is insane. It clearly shows that those people don't actually understand or care about bigotry. At best they want to make their own lives better and at worst they use it as cover to justify those things.

So yeah. I'm more than happy to associate myself with anyone willing to fight for equality, not so much girlboss "feminists."

EDIT: Also on a personal level, I think something people misunderstand about feminism is that it's not JUST for women. Men are also hurt by the patriarchy. The flip-side of the societal expectations for women to be passive, emotional, and attractive homemakers is for men to have the pressure of working outside the home, exposing themselves to violence in wars, suppressing emotions and self expression because those are associated with being feminine and if women are lesser, then that also makes them lesser, hence transphobia and less extreme versions of gender policing.

Feminism is good for men too. It's good for trans people. It's good for non-binary people. It's good for anyone who doesn't fit the rigid expectations society has burdened them with since birth. Even if you consider yourself to be a heterosexual cis man, do you never feel stifled by people not taking your emotions seriously or looking down on you for having them? Do you not wish that you could stay home and see your kids more?

Even for purely selfish reasons men should want to be feminists.

[–] swelter_spark@reddthat.com 2 points 1 month ago

Yeah, I consider myself to be a feminist.

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