this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2025
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The survey by the Centre for Social Investment Studies (CENSIS) showed 39% of Italians aged between 18 and 45 would declare themselves as pacifist conscientious objectors, 19% would try to evade conscription another way, and 26% would prefer Italy to hire foreign mercenaries.

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[–] Klimaschutz@feddit.org 2 points 16 hours ago

Nobody will attack the EU anyway. Next one.

[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'd rather migrate to another country than to risk my life and the ones I love for a pointless war driven by maniac idiots.

[–] saimen@feddit.org 5 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Me too. But sometimes I am also wondering what then. Sooner or later the maniac idiots will come to the other country as well and maybe it's better to fight them before they get even stronger.

[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 3 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

Maybe. But for a foreseeable lifetime this wouldn't be my problem and not worth risking my life. Life is way too precious to throw it away so easily by becoming a cog in the war machine.

[–] Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

for a foreseeable lifetime this wouldn’t be my problem

Just one example among many why this isn't the case, at least if you live in a non-democratic country.

[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Good thing I don't have children and don't live in such a shitty country.

[–] Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

"The unwilling were tasered or had their papers signed for them”: Russia’s fall conscription drive reaches new levels of brutality -- (Dec 2024)

[...] Law enforcement officers break into young men’s homes, dress in plain clothes to ambush them near buildings, and handcuff them in subway stations and shopping malls. Newly drafted conscripts are even apprehended during trips to other cities and dragged into police cars in the streets. Conscripts and their families [say that] military enlistment officials, together with Russia’s National Guard (Rosgvardiya), tase prospective soldiers with electric shockers and threaten them with criminal charges in an effort to force them into uniform [...]

This reality does little to increase the draft's popularity. Instead, it has led enlistment offices to act more aggressively. Aside from the all too familiar tactic of “same-day transfers to the assembly point” — a practice that gained traction in the fall of 2022 — conscripts are subjected to beatings, handcuffing, detention at enlistment offices, and are coerced into signing contracts with Russia’s Ministry of Defense on the spot [...]

As one Russian man tells in the article:

"They came around noon and started ringing the doorbell. My mother refused to open, but they broke the lock and came inside. They justified their intrusion by claiming the apartment was municipally owned and, therefore, they had the right to enter whenever they pleased. They tried to intimidate everyone. My mother stood in the hallway, yelling and trying to block their way, but they pushed her aside harshly, leaving bruises on her arm, and made their way inside [the home].

"My sister started recording everything on her phone. Three men came in. They identified themselves as Nikolai Igorevich Yakushev, a sergeant from the Khoroshevo-Mnevniki [District] police department, and Alexander Balashov, the senior district officer. With them was a plainclothes man — a bald guy who refused to identify himself. We later realized he was from the draft office.”

[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 1 points 15 hours ago

Yes, this is horrible. Luckily I don't live in such an inhumane nation.

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Does that include your country being invaded? Does “a pointless war driven by maniac idiots” include defense from invasion?

[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 0 points 21 hours ago
[–] PostingInPublic@lemmy.world 49 points 1 day ago (1 children)

To "fight for your country" has been coopted so many times for wars in far away lands, ideological wars, wars of aggression, that the phrasing alone will make people assume they are being lied to and that somebody is fishing for dumb people to be sent into the meat grinder.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

"fight for your country" has been coopted

Maybe, but surveys like this have been held in several countries and most show a higher percentage of willingness..Seemingly, most respondents there didn't have this association.

Idk about Italy specifically, or the difference in phrasing per study though.

Add. another factor could be the disinformation landscape. statista

[–] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

China and Russia's absence makes this meaningless.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

China and Russia's absence makes this meaningless.

What do you mean, you aren't talking about the graph, right?

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[–] neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 day ago (10 children)

Well, then they's better send weapons to Ukraine

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[–] Commiunism@beehaw.org 12 points 1 day ago (3 children)

What's that? You don't want to throw yourselves into a meatgrinder to protect the private property rights of your fellow rich nationals?

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 1 points 22 hours ago

The article doesn't talk about any specific kind of war, does it?

For example, if I look at Gaza or Ukraine, I can't see it as "damage to rich private property rights".

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

In all likelyhood the adversary isn't taking my apartment. It's taking the factories I don't own. Maybe working conditions would be worse afterwards. Maybe they'd better. Gotta check who's invading.

Gotta check who’s invading.

a line to remember

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Most likely countries to invade are far right authoritarian. Though IDK where you live, if you're in like Russia or Iran there's merit to the idea that conditions might improve. If you're in any of the classic "western" countries, no way, though - even the USA has better working conditions than Russia.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Likely. The joke about the bird in cow shit applies though. Not everyone who shits on you means you harm and not everyone who pulls you out of the shit means you good.

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[–] tjoa@feddit.org 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I always thought Italy is full of nationalists

[–] edinbruh@feddit.it 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

You see, Italians hate their country, but at the same time think it's the best country (right until they need to do some bureaucracy, then it's the worst).

So they nationalisticaly defend it with words against other countries, but they wouldn't actually put skin in the game.

Source: you can see my instance ends with .it

[–] DoGeeseSeeGod@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Why does working in IT give you insight into Italy?

[–] rfr_Foglia@feddit.it 2 points 16 hours ago

If you aren't sarcastic, .it is Italy national domain (short for Italy, ofc)

[–] tjoa@feddit.org 4 points 1 day ago

This would explain it, thanks for the insight

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[–] Fifrok@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 day ago

Can we get that down to 0% world-wide? Pretty please?

Only 16% of Italians would fight for their country, survey shows

does that include women?

[–] Jackhammer_Joe@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] fiddlesticks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My thoughts exactly, time for big germany to return. Although not in the previous way I guess

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 2 points 17 hours ago

What exactly do you think the EU is? 😱

[–] notsosure@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago

Surely it will be more once the rubber hits the road.