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Cause the far right did so well for the UK (Thatcher, Brexit, Boris, Liz Truss) - they want more????
this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2025
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It's about getting rich not making their nations better
Plus hurting brown people
We are living in the Age of the Grifter.
Its pretty easy to score points when the government is doing everything it can to become unpopular.
told ya so. fascism in europe!
So glad the liberals, both in government and voters, that always lead us to fascism are so invested in shit like "respectability politics", politics "being boring" and being on their supposed intellectual high horse because "emotions are bad, you should never raise your voice when people are starving and being genocided, you're just the same as the far right." But then while saying this just doing mostly what the far right want, pretending it's somehow their idea. It's really working so well to stop them.
But then the liberals would happily throw us into fascism if it meant there was an "I told you so" they could somehow twist out of it to say to the left
I will give you that.
Although I hope you give me that taking this level of dissatisfaction and managing to get negligible gains while the populist far right turns it into an outright lead in the polls is a massive failure of the left.
I am pretty staggered at the absolute incapability to make a dent on this trend by anybody at this point. It takes some hardcore commitment to 20th, if not 19th century politics to suck this badly at this.
The left has been getting kneecaped by the center at every opportunity. Macron formed as far right of a government as he could despite the left taking the most seats in parliament. Labour kicked Corbyn out of the party for trying to take them back to actually focusing on the needs of workers and not capital. SDP in Germany only cares about making sure Israel is loaded up with all the missles and arms it needs to carry out it's genocide in Gaza. Liberals will give the reigns of power to the fascists before they ever make a concession to the left
Again, how come the far right has been able to pull the center right to the extreme but the left has sucked so bad at gaining concessions from centrist liberals?
I swear, step 1 to stopping fascism is we all collectively stop pretending the dog ate our campaign strategy.
This thread is bumming me out immensely. There is zero reaction here. Just whining and deflecting, from centrists and leftists alike. We are not turning this around this way.
How come i can get my alcoholic brother to go to a brewery with me, but i can't get him to go to rehab with me? Liberals DO NOT WANT to make concessions to the left.
Ah, so they are right and we are wrong.
As in, we literally have losing cards. People are just naturally inclined to be right wing, and leftist positions are inherently minoritary.
That not only flies in the face of history and common sense, it's defeatist to the point that a century ago it would have gotten you pegged as some fifth columnist infiltrator in any self-respecting leftist organization.
Human nature seems to be a huge part of it. Blaming someone else for all your troubles is such a winning concept, it's really hard to fight against it. Plus actually having to acknowledge real issues and trying to fix them often comes with people having to change or sacrifice and that's a hard sell compared to someone just pretending to have perfect solutions and that everything will be fine.
Sadly emotions win debates against facts almost every time.
That sounds good, but I'm going to need a bit more proof than just the premise that leftist politics are inherently a harder sell than race wars, genocidal urges and actively voting against one's own interests.
It's a cop out. An excuse. "It's not that we suck at selling this, it's that we're right and it's hard to do the right thing".
Not buying it. Even discounting the places where they do have left-leaning governments holding back the far right, the obvious retort is "well, lie to them, then". I mean, do you think the fascists have a plan for when they seize power and persecuting migrants and giving the rich control of most of society turns out to not fix everybody's problems? If people are so emotional and dumb, then manipulate them for their own good.
Either the left has been bad at normal politics or they've been bad at populism. It's abject failure either way.
Don't ignore the media. A lot of money also means a lot of media attention which is skewed to the right and the whole social media, advertising industry and getting paid by clicks favors emotional content.
Right. So you're telling me that these filthy liberals control the media and they're still unable to stem the tide of extremist countercultural fascists about to unseat them from power all over Europe? What good is tilting the media to the right if you are entirely powerless to stop the fringes from kicking you out?
More to the point, where is the social media manipulation towards the left? How come the fascists can use social media to normalize an extreme but the left cannot?
I'm exhausted by the victimism. At least when the far right plays the victim card they have the common decency to do so in a call for rage-induced action. The left has become accustomed to the "what can you do" school of being a victim. It's infuriating.
I say it again. Get good at old politics or get good at new politics. If Breitbart managed to become the acceptable template for what used to be centre-right conservative press the left has zero excuses.
Capital controls the media, not the left. The concept that the left controls the media is made up in order to justify pushing the goalpost to the right.
It is no different than the conservatives' beef with colleges not giving their ideology safe spaces. This is most pronounced in law schools where conservatives are demanding their "constitutional originalism" reasoning be taught. The problem is, of course, there is no actual legal theory. They just made it up.
You seem to be upset that the left, which is not represented by any political party or corporation is not in control of the narrative. This is by design.
Listen, appealing to the dark side of human nature, othering people, blaming government is easy and works great. It is low hanging fruit stuff. It is effective for control and manipulation. It is also the opposite of what people on the left want.
They are not victims, they just don't have any real power. The US has always been controlled by the wealthy and they are choosing the easy way out to stay in power. Giving the illusion of democracy takes a lot of work and even some occasional minor concessions. It is and always will be an illusion though in our current system.
We really need to form a government that is designed by nature to resist corruption instead of embracing it. Until we have something like that nothing meaningfully will change.
Eh... the left controls my government. There are plenty of leftist parties in Europe (which is what the thread is about).
I mean, last I checked France, Germany and the UK were not in the US, but I may have missed something in the news today.
Otherwise, I can´t stress enough how little I care about what happens to the US. Which is as little as possible but not zero, because I am not allowed to make it zero, which is what I'd really want.
Capital controls your country unless your living in some utopian place I have never heard of. The wealthy continue to amass capital at shocking rates in all of Europe. If the left "controlled" your country this would not be happening so I have to call bullshit.
I can't stress enough that the same thing is happening and will continue to happen everywhere if we don't put a stop to the runaway train. You could care less about the US and what is coming for you. I wish I shared your ignorance, life would seem a lot better
Hah. And here we go. We'll move those goalposts as far as we have to in order to pretend there is nothing we can do.
Man, the US has done some damage, but I am shocked at how pernicious it has been when a handful of them started cosplaying as leftists and pushing their warped view of how all of this works onto the rest of us.
It's true that US-controlled social media exported this model for rising fascism. US leftists are absolutely a part of that process.
I genuinely encourage everybody else in other parts of the world, and particularly in the bits of Europe and America where there is still some leftist organization with some institutional power to cut off as much of US media and social media as possible. Including —especially, even— leftist US media and social media. The worldwide far right is importing the US fascist playbook. We don't win this by mimicking the losing equivalent of their local opposition. There are better alternatives.
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Hey buddy. You're talking real fast. I dont think you know what you're talking about.
Commenter clearly said billionaire media outlets are right leaning and control discourse. Billionaires are all right leaning. Billionaires fund breitbart. How did breitbart become mainstream? Because they were funded by multiple fascist Billionaires to advance their agenda.
why doesn't the left manipulate social media
Oh you mean on the nazi platform owned by a nazi billionaire? Or do you mean on Facebook, also owned by a billionaire? I guess you mean lemmy, because thats what "leftist" social media looks like. Oh wow we arent dictating discourse because our app doesn't make anyone money, big fucking shocker. Not to mention every kamala voter on this app needs to make sure than anyone to the left of her is shouted down. The left is really making waves.
People feel this way because it is literally only regular people asking for left wing policy and all of the power to influence politics is in the money. Nobody has any money because it was stolen from them by these same people who control all the social media, the news, and all the politicians. So people say "theres nothing we can do" because none of the Billionaires are going to suddenly stop being Billionaires and then nuke the rest of them from orbit.
If its so easy to start communist breitbart then go do that shit dude, if you've got it so figured out then why are you here talking? You wont, because this is cope. Plenty of people are making left wing media and driving conversation towards socialism but they're making no money from it and getting no reach because they're principled socialists doing educational socialist advocacy. Read: nobody with money would ever in a million years fund them the way the right wing funds tim pool, benny johnson, ben shapiro, jordan peterson, joe rogan, matt walsh, and you get the point now? Billionaires OPPOSE our viewpoints. Our shit is in workshops and union halls, not on TV. Thats why this disconnect is so large, because you dont broadcast socialism into people the same way you do bigotry.
Build a cadre and start doing the work, we dont need a top down authority to direct us like the troglodytes on the right. The "what can you do" attitude is towards billionaires controlling media not social revolution.
See, that's some more excuses.
Turns out that a) back when the centrist liberals were quite close with those billionaires and didn't want to rock the boat the far right still managed to sway both the billionaires themselves and politics overall rightward straight from the fringes, which the left hasn't been able to mirror then or now.
But, more importantly, b) why is your app so shitty? I mean, sure, the other guys were able to cozy up to money, create, fund or buy platforms and pull poltiical strings. So we were what? Developing open source communication protocols that didn't manage to get people to stick around even when the nazi billionaire had multiple public breakdowns?
See, the problem with that is the "if you don't like it fix it yourself" attitude works about as well in politics as it does in open source software. Which is to say, not at all. It's... actually kinda scary how well those two things map together. Nobody is in charge, nobody is getting paid, nobody wants to do anything and if enough people get together to actually try without corporate sponsorship you end up with a bunch of identical forks, none of which work particulary well.
But hey, by all means, enjoy your artisanal socialism and lose with dignity. I'm sure the moral pangs will make the well organized fascists really regret steamrolling the loose smattering of well informed cadres in union halls.
I don't have it "figured out", but I can certainly tell you that small scale zero budget grassroots action splintered across a multitude of factions delineated by random purity tests is not going to do much. That's also why I have zero interest in starting yet another useless splinter of any kind.
There is an opportunity to rally anger around an alternative and yes, it will take unification, a charismatic leader and plenty of top down authority to get it going. The left is dropping the ball massively on all of those fronts. Get me that and I won't care if it aligns with my particular brand of leftism, I'll vote for it and support it publicly.
I mean, I already do, I live in a country with a left-leaning government, at least for now, and I will continue to vote for leftist parties here regardless of what happens or what they do for the foreseeable future. But... you know, in places where they don't have a functional left wing apparatus.
So it appears that ~30% of people in any given population are evil. That tracks.
Doesn't surprise me.
When you cut everyone out of the conversation who wants to call men men and women women, it creates an opportunity for politicians cater to those people.
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Uh oh
POC around the world just took a deep breath.
tosses last shred of hope over my shoulder
I am not surprised. Europe isn't constant on the same level of racism across it but it's definitely worse everywhere compared to the US. A lot more acceptable to say something racist to non-white people and then be like, it's just a joke have a sense of humor just trying to lighten the mood. Like step into a bar and be the wrong color and the music stops and you're stared at (not joking random bars in Dusseldorf and Stuttgart)
East and nordics worse than west but the west has Italy and Spain. Even then, better in the west but outside of the large cities that are also international tourist destinations it's rough to not be white.
And then the significance of far right political parties and neo Nazi orgs always looked worse in Europe to me. In the US the 2 party system dulls out identity politics a bit even though it's getting worse whereas a 5-30% minority party that's primarily about ethnocentrism is fully possible across European countries and wield a strong influence in coalition forming. In the US, be more scared of law enforcement organizations. Europe fear more the young populace hanging around and the old people staring and progressively law enforcement organizations
Trump was not going to stymie interest in right wing politics for much time at all. It would give way to nationalism. Anti-globalisation that always gives way to anti-immigration that always gives way to anti whatever skin color or religion isn't the majority. Nationalism. Europe's boiling point for centuries. Even before Trump 1 were far right/neo Nazi orgs growing in size across Europe. In my opinion because of how much more of Europe is closer to ethnostates than the US, Europe can quickly devolve into far worse than the US faster. Benefits of Europe for non-whites is the better social safety nets but in terms of institutionalized/unaddressed racial bias/casual racism - all over Europe it's worse than the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. The US just makes more headlines.
A joke is that the worst thing for Mexico is being next door to the US. The joke can swap the US for Europe and stick pretty much every country across Asia, Africa, and Oceania for Mexico. If you go back before like Monroe, replace the US with European countries for the former native nations in the americas
Talk about assimilation of immigrants in Europe compared to the US always sounded weird to me. Like there needs to be some major pervasive program to make immigrants like locals however the US manages to do. In the US first and second gen immigrants mostly live in neighborhoods composed of similar background people like Europeans complain about and then by 3rd generation they're mostly fully assimilated but disadvantaged minorities if they're not white but also not necessarily doing worse economically. Usually disadvantaged socially. Disadvantaged in media. There's plenty of effort for higher represeation for black people in everything but like no effort for non-black minorities. Assimilation programs in the US are practically non-existent or nothing burgers. Little effort just Americans mostly don't think about assimilation programs. Assimilate to what defined culture. Things monoculture from the ones born in the US. Out in Europe people are so close to saying reeducation camps for immigrants
TL;Dr "we throw brown people in ghettos so we don't see how much more racist our country is"
Ghettos to me are just the natural destination. People these days try to conflate immigrants all as wealthy immigrants to downplay immigrant successes in upward mobility but pretty sure most non-white people across Europe and the US came over as refugees/asylum seekers usually from wars from invading Americans and Europeans. My impression of what immigrants across Europe are mad about and it's all former colonial holdings that were Muslim countries and have been proxy war central since after the Ottoman empire fell.
They're broke. They're traumatized from a warzone and/or poverty (level of poverty unfamiliar to Americans and Europeans) and then traumatized again from the uprooting their life from tgeir community to another country where they will undoubtedly face some level of racism and language barrier
They're broke so of course they'll end up in poor communities and communities of similar background where they can function day to day with less language barrier issues. Language barrier assimilation. Classic and ongoing solution for people is their children learn the language in elementary/middle school and as elementary/middle school children, they're helping their parents fill out paperwork and talk to doctors/school admins/whoever. Why are children of immigrants so resilient and resourceful but oftenly not so whimsical as kids with long lineages in a country, those children often are doing adult stuff from a very early age to support old people in the community that have trouble learning the countries language. Early age responsibilities mentally age kids quick
Then as the children grow up make money and the neighborhood economically stabilizes from a large community of hard working immigrants, now the white people want to move in for all the high quality food and grocery stores. Not the best landscaping and fresh paint buildings, but possibly the most convienent neighborhoods to live in now that the neighborhoods economically grown and stabilized.
So convienent and ethnic while still mostly anyone under the age of like 50 can speak the countries primary language. There's very little active efforts to force assimilation. It's just children that grow up watching the same media as all the other children wanting to fit in growing up. I don't know what assimilation program even means when Europeans keep talking about it's necessity and using the US as a measuring stick of assimilation program success. The US barely does anything in that regard. Just let's it play out over a couple generations