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245

'Starvation is everywhere': Virtual tours of Gaza clinics expose the scale of the horror (www.haaretz.com)

submitted 2 days ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/world@lemmy.world

49 comments fedilink hide all child comments

We held a virtual encounter with Al-Farra and his patients this past Monday via a video call. In the past few weeks, we've sought to document what starvation looks like in Gaza, to witness the gravity of the situation with our own eyes. Israel doesn't allow journalists into the Strip, but via video we've been able to conduct real-time, online tours of hospitals and clinics.

For this article we conducted four such tours, in different places, and conducted separate conversations with another 12 doctors, 10 of them volunteers from the United States and Britain, who are currently in the Gaza Strip or were there recently. What we saw there left no room for doubt about the scale of the horror.

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[–] JTskulk@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Why don't they just move to where the food is?

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This article is by Yarden Michaelis and Nir Hassan. I hope folks are watching it for them, because I fear they're going to be arrested for publishing this. It's flatly illegal in Israel to publish stories that are "demoralizing to the war effort" regardless of veracity.

And then there's also right wing harassment and violence. I really applied these journalists for their courage and hope they stay safe.

[–] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 4 points 1 day ago

Arrested? They will be lucky not to get bombed.

[–] altphoto@lemmy.today 11 points 1 day ago

Imagine how this whole thing eventually becomes history. 30 years into the future all current elder leaders of the US are pretty much dead or nearing death. All named I'm history books as asshole Nazis resulting in worse death counts than the original Holocaust. I'm pointing this out because I just gotta try. Literally I could be murdered to shut me up but the result won't change. What's done is done. Orange turd is going to get whatever the opposite of a world peace price is.

The only effect is ruining all our futures. Another bump in the road. No one ever remembers kings or Queens. Anyone remember what tlalalook or ketzahuatlmok price of the great Aztec whatever? Nah. No names. But 100 years from now there won't be a single descendant of the current leadership due to natural selection. Women just don't want to have sex with asshole racists. All their racism will have been for nothing. Everyone knows that the world's population will be older and decreasing and we'll just be more diversity in actual births.

It would be nice if they all ate a peanut and choked but there's no god doing anything about this. So it won't happen. Its more likely that they come out as full nazi and televise our visit to the incinerators. We non pure racists will be burnt alive in American concentration camps. That's our depressive future. But what comes next after liberation is a new wave of human freedom. For now I'm just going to try to enjoy my remaining freedoms until the day I get to scratch my name on the incinerator wall.

[+] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -28 points 2 days ago (7 children)

If only Hamas would just surrender.

[–] krunklom@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 day ago

If only you'd do the right thing and just eat a huge tub of razor blades and human fecez

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

If only israel end occupation, allow palestinians to have an army to combat hamas if they refuse to drop arms

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 25 points 2 days ago

Israel would probably just keep starving people anyway

[–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 21 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

These children specifically were responsible for the kidnappings. /s

Denying them food until they die is the only way to achieve justice for Israel. /s

[+] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Nothing to do with 'justice'. Israel's actions here are abhorrent and they are responsible for what they've done as are the Americans for supporting them. But what they are doing it for is to get rid of Hamas because Hamas continues to attack them. If Hamas fully surrendered, this would stop.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

For fascists, the constant state of conflict is the goal. In Netanyahu's case this is doubly true, because he could end up in prison if his government collapses.

[+] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -7 points 1 day ago (4 children)

So if Hamas unconditionally surrendered and all the hostages were returned, you think Isreal would continue to attack and starve Gaza? They simply couldn't - that would actually lose support from the U.S. if that happened.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 day ago

Yes, because Israel is explicitly a settler colonial project. They could keep attacking Gaza like they keep attacking Syria despite Syria not doing anything hostile to them. Israel is there to take land while killing and displacing the current inhabitants.

US support for Israel is not derived from popular support, but by the profits of the military industrial complex. As long the conflict is profitable it will continue.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Yes because the plan of zionists and israel was always taking control of all palestine. The honest zio think palestinians doesn't even exists, they call them arab invaders

[–] ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Just forget “Hamas”, you clearly don’t understand what it is at all, which is fathers of dead children, children of dead parents, brothers of dead sisters. It is naturally produced by oppression and can no more surrender than an immune system can be consciously controlled. Stop the attacks and it will naturally dissipate or normalise, like all other non-colonialist militia.

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 0 points 6 hours ago

It grew spontaneously in a relative time of peace before the October attacks. They are financed and supported from abroad - they won't 'dissipate' unless they are forced to.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Isreal had repeatedly rejected ceasefires and agreements doing that.

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Negotiated ceasefires would always have conditions. That's not an 'unconditional surrender'.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

We're at the point where Israel consistently calls everyone in the area hamas, or anyone opposing them. Even if hamas did surrender like that they'd continue because well not all of them laid down their arms, that baby was being trained to shoot us

This entire thread you're entire argument is just

people who have been starved, oppressed and ethnicly cleansed should just surrender to those doing it to them

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 0 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

You do realize that Hamas is still fighting with guns and rockets against Israel, right?

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

And idf is only killing those right?

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

No, they're shooting indiscriminately and not safeguarding civilians and if it's not a war crime, it should be. All the more reason for the people of Gaza to surrender - just like France did under blitzkrieg. Not a great choice to have to make but it's insane that Gaza doesn't surrender.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Because they know either way Israels only goal is to kill everyone in that area. Even if they did it doesn't matter if Israel doesn't accept it

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

You don't know that. And I don't believe it.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 hours ago

Israel aren't subtle about that being their end goal

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Israel actions is genocidal and is terrorism

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

True. Then Israel wouldn't have to starve those kids to death.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago

Hamas made me do a genocide... Honest!

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

If only the colonists would just leave Palestine and go back to Ukraine and Long Island.

[+] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Yes that would stop it too. But there's not much likelihood of that. Whereas Hamas is clearly not having any success, and prolonging this war is only causing such terrible misery. And yes that's because the Israelis don't care about the misery of the people of Gaza, they only care about defeating Hamas. There's a lot of evil. But if Hanas fully surrendered, this would stop immediately. And they have nothing to gain by keeping us going.

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

You've fallen for Zionist propaganda. You have to read what they say in Hebrew, not English.

They are quite explicit that they want everyone in Gaza gone, a lot of them want them all dead. Hamas and the hostages is just the cover story for Western corporate media to gaslight the public.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Netanyahu's has explicitly stated it is the goal of his generation to deny Palestinian statehood.

Hamas should turn themselves over the ICJ, they won't, but this would not stop Israel. Right-wing groups want their opposing counterparts to exist so they have an excuse to commit more atrocities later. Hamas wants nothing more for everyone in Gaza to die so they can have two million martyrs. Israel's far right government wanted a pretext to carry out this genocide. It's undoubtedly part of why Netanyahu help found Hamas. Which has been known publicly since 2019. edit: typo

https://newrepublic.com/article/176962/hamas-finances-funding-sources-palestinian-authority

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No, the occupation need to end first then responsible for war crimes on both should be punished

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Israel as a zionist Jewish ethno-state must be replaced with a multi-ethnic pluralistic state. Part of accomplishing that requires Netanyahu's governing coalition collapse. A great way to accomplish that would be to send Israel's government to the Hague.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The solution is the death of the zionist ideology that is still popular in israel. Every single goddamn prime of isrsel is a war criminal. The other part is western countries sanctionning israel cuba style

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If the Israelis who fought in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War were 18 in 1948 that would make them 77 years older or 95 years old. This is like Israel hunting down the Nazis on their death bed. At some point most of these people died of old age. It's going to be the odd centenarian who faces justice in 2030.

I am not a Nazi or a Zionist. I do not seek the total extermination of groups of people. This has no appeal to me. Put whoever in jail or prison that deserves it but you will likely be transferring them to a hospital and then a morgue shortly after.

Here is the current list of centenarians now as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_living_centenarians

Searching by Israeli I get seven matches:

Dutch-Israeli | Holocaust survivor[11]
Israeli | Air Force major general[68]
German-born British-Israeli | Journalist, actor, businessman and Holocaust survivor[180]
Israeli | Military official and expert[222]
Ukrainian-Israeli | Olympic fencer[262]
Israeli | Nuclear physicist[277]
Polish-born Israeli | War veteran[306]

Unless you speak some of these languages I recommend the language translator option that should appear in the top right of your browser's search bar.

Are we arresting the Polish guy who fought in the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 against the Nazis? He also fought in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War against Arabs.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-853294

Looks like the Major General and the Air Force Commander would fit squarely into the kind of people you would want in the Hauge.

There's also the Dutch-Israeli woman who is a holocaust survivor to consider.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2538252-107-jarige-holocaustoverlevende-krijgt-amsterdamse-andreaspenning

And the British-Israeli holocaust survivor who rescued soldiers from the Battle of Normandy and is the oldest active journalist. But his quote about October 7th, published on January 7th, 2024 hasn't aged well.

“I’ve always felt a deep connection to the Jewish people and our homeland. I value the moments I’ve spent fighting against tyranny and promoting the truth through journalism. I could never have imagined that at the age of 100 I would be a witness to the horrific pogrom against Jews that took place on October 7 and the terrifying resurgence of antisemitism since. As I celebrate today, I also pray for the future of the State of Israel and the Jewish people.”

Probably seemed like a reasonable statement a few months after October 7th.

https://www.jwire.com.au/walter-bingham-kindertransport-survivor-celebrates-100th-birthday/

There is the Ukrainian Israeli Olympic fencer

A man who survived the Battle of Stalingrad and the Chernobyl disaster.

Источник: https://www.sovsport.ru/chronicles/articles/segodnya-istoricheskij-den-starejshemu-otechestvennomu-olimpijczu-100-let

(The site can copy the link when you paste a quote. Cool.)

And here's a softball, the Israeli nuclear physicist was in the Palmach. Easy Hague material.

Those are the seven who are 100 or older now. Is this something people are seriously interested engaging in for people younger than that who would now be in their nineties? Or does this context not even matter and people want these people in prison regardless? And is prison good enough or do people want blood? Punishing these people in any capacity won't undermine Zionism. There is no utility in such an endeavor if the goal is defeating Zionism, an ideology.

Also, since I identified seven Jewish centenarians which comes off as a sus thing to do and some people like saying things that start off with 'If you were a Jew', I'm a Russian-Jewish American and undoubtedly a mix of European ethnic groups as I am pasty white, but not an Israeli. edit: typo

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

why would they? It is a project by Netanyahu's government to control the region and they seem to be doing their job well even now. Governments don't kickstart organizations like this without having some moles in their high up rankings.

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -4 points 1 day ago (4 children)

BS. Netanyahu may have encouraged Hamas at some point , but they only continue because they want to hurt Israel and they don't care about the starving children in Gaza any more than Israel does. Look on these message boards; many people refuse to put any blame on Hamas. Just me suggesting Hamas should surrender evokes responses only about how Isreal is responsible. It seems that the supporters of Gaza don't want Hamas to surrender - they say they don't like children starving, but seemingly not so much that they'd like Hamas to surrender. It's really strange when you think about it.

[–] ParadoxSeahorse@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Classic bait. It’s a straw man to compare militia action to political messaging. We already know the IDF are 50x worse than Hamas.

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -1 points 6 hours ago

I think communication and general moral consensus matters. If people voiced their dislike and contempt for Hamas half as much as they do for Israel, it could have the effect of diminishing Hamas' purpose for continuing this war.
But I think a lot of commenters actually support Hamas, and the violence it keeps doing. But they won't actually admit that. So it makes it hard to understand.

[–] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

'Do you condemn Hamas?' is a meme at this point. No one is taking that far-right talking point seriously.

Your argument is using a motte-and-bailey fallacy. It begins by solely blaming Hamas for the continuation of the war for not surrendering when it is quite clear that Israel has no intention of accepting such a surrender. Israel is actively ignoring a ceasefire proposal they previously agreed to right now.

Then when pressed your argument retreats to asserting most people refuse to put partial blame on Hamas. I condemn Hamas. A majority of people on here do. No one is interested in wasting their time saying that. 'Do you condemn Hamas' has been done quite a bit at this point. There's nothing weird about not taking your genocide apologia seriously.

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 0 points 11 hours ago

Israel would stop if Hamas unconditionally surrendered and released all hostages. They would have to, and they would. And they would continue to occupy Gaza and be assholes, but the violence would go way down and the aid embargo would be lifted.
If you all are so condemning of Hamas, why is the response to 'if only Hamas would surrender' so angry and attacking of Israel. Why deflect this way? Yes if Israel weren't doing bad stuff there would be less bad stuff happening; but that's a different thing.
You react vehemently against the notion that Hamas should surrender but claim you agree Hamas should surrender.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The blame will only be on the occupier alone

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

In that context, Israel has an obligation to root out and destroy Hamas in Gaza.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Israel only obligation to get the hell out of palestine, you genocide supporter

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world -1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

You're a genocide supporter then. Hamas wants to genocide Israel. And you are supporting Hamas.
I don't support Israel's actions in Gaza.
I was just pointing out that by calling it an occupation, then an occupying force has the responsibility of providing safety and stability to the occupied lands. And Hamas, in that context, would be a barrier to that.

[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't support Israel's actions in Gaza

Do you mean the genocide and Israeli terrorism?

Hamas wants to genocide Israel

The only genocide supporter is you, Israel is the one doing a genocide right now. Even after a century a free Palestine would never be able to commit any genocide . Hamas said they will drop arms once occupation end. Even if they lie , Israel could easily reoccupy.

I only defend resistance against the occupying force the IDF, i never supported hamas killing innocent civilians.

You are the type of people who would have sided with slave owner and Nate turner killed kids during his revolt and talk about how Nate was the reason why slavery persisted. You would have sided with France and Britain and called Algerian and Indian resistance the reason why occupation lasted that long

I was just pointing out that by calling it an occupation, then an occupying force has the responsibility of providing safety and stability to the occupied lands.

No, Israel as a settler colonial power should get the hell out of Palestine . Hamas is not the barrier it was always Zionists and Israel. Some Arab proposed a one state for the beginning Zionists refused. Zionists leaders admitted that they always want the whole land. Israel decided to occupy Gaza and west bank in 67 nobody forced them to. The Oslo accords was PLO recognizing Israel and stop attacking it in exchange of end of occupation. What Israel did was the build illegal settlements making a two state hard if not impossible.

You Zionazis should go back to reddit because your stupid disgusting propaganda will never work

after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - Ben Gurion

The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him. - Menachem Begin

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 0 points 3 hours ago

I think I was pretty clear that I don't support Israel.
But your minimizing the atrocities of Hamas doesn't help the situation. Israel has gone off the deep end, just like the U.S. is going. But to not recognize Hamas' desire to wipe out the Jews in Israel shows a very poor understanding of the situation.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Oh I will never support a terrorist organization, so fuck hamas. But Israel state is by far the greater terrorist organization at this point. And no one buys the rhetoric that war goes on because of Hamas. How many times has Israel already killed the critical leaders of Hamas? And yet they still continue to terrorize and ethnically cleanse people of Gaza because of a terrorist organisation whose key leadership they have killed multiple times? That is what I call bs. This war is just a casus belli for the Netanyahu's government to stay in power so he has no intention of letting it end before he gets all its spoils. And apparently about 70 to 80 percent of Israeli people unfortunately share his views. It is insane how delusional it is to expect respect and peaceful reactions from your neighbours when all you do is spread hate and fear towards them.

And this is not the only example of deep state planting moles in terrorist organizations, be it to know in advance what they will do or to steer them towards actions which you think is beneficial to keep an oppressive government in place.