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Call me cynical but I suspect this will mainly shift load for the benefit of the network operators.
I wouldn't be surprised if supply charges and non-free hours go up to offset any income loss for the electricity suppliers. Weatlhy home owners with solar pv, large power demands, and expensive appliances who can take advantage of free hours might be better off. People in rentals or poorer home owners might be worse off and it could be yet another wealth transfer.
Eh. This is really a short-term problem. The real value of this is that it creates a market incentive for other companies to build storage and off-peak energy usage.
This may end up being the most affordable way of moving to a 100% renewable grid. Solar panels are so stupid cheap now that the best option may be to build some minimal storage, but solve most power swings by just absolutely spamming solar panels. You build enough to provide your average daily need in the lowest-producing months. Then the rest of the year you have dirt cheap power. Some power-intensive industries just become seasonal. We have a farming season. Why can't we have an aluminum smelting season or a AI model training season? Maybe the guys working in the aluminum foundry work 12 hour days in the summer but get three months off in the winter. This type of seasonal employment variance has been the norm through almost the entire history of civilization. Before cheap lighting, even manufacturing was a seasonal affair, with longer hours in the warm months and shorter hours in the cool dark months. We're used to our industries operating at a constant output through the year, as that is the best way to minimize CAPEX expenditure. But with dirt cheap power for most of the year, the economics of many industries change, and seasonal production swings become profitable.
Oh definitely. Rather telling that vic doesn't get a look in - the state that's entirely smart meters and infrastructured to enable this.
Because we’re only getting 3 hours of sun on our solar panels amirite? 😔
“Free” lol. Power companies definitely won’t be increasing their power costs in the other 21 hours after being literally forced by the government to give it away for “free” for 3 hours.
Also you have to sign up to a new power plan that will no doubt have higher and/or new daily fees, requires a smart meter, and I’m pretty sure is VPP enabled meaning the power company can steal your power and charge you for the privilege.
I’m pretty sure is VPP enabled meaning the power company can steal your power and charge you for the privilege.
With a VPP you are paid for exporting power from your battery to the grid when there are price peaks.
You get paid to do this and if enough people do it the price spikes flatten down saving everyone on the grid money.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/vpps-have-pros-cons/
Also the government recently made it legal for power companies to charge you for your exports, which you need to be on a VPP for them to do, and at the same time the government is incentivising everyone to get a smart meter, on a VPP, and solar and batteries……
Coincidence?
I don't get it
the power company can steal your power and charge you for the privilege
If you export power to the grid, you are paid for it
The whole reason to join a VPP, is so you get paid for exporting power during CRITICAL peak events
I know, because I have now been on 2 VPP's
One with Sonnen, where they paid me $15 a month for being on standby to charge or discharge during peak events and Globird ZeroHero:
ZEROLIMITS (Optional add-on): Take your earnings to the next level Get $1/kWh on exports during wholesale critical events, plus other critical event credits
https://www.globirdenergy.com.au/energy-saver/zerohero/
Nobody is signing up to a VPP to donate their power and get nothing for it
Also the government recently made it legal for power companies to charge you for your exports, which you need to be on a VPP for them to do
Where did you read this?
The charge for exports is for SOLAR during the MIDDLE of the DAY because there is TOO MUCH solar
Solar energy exports are reaching levels in some parts of the grid during the 10am – 3pm period that they are becoming difficult to manage and could potentially pose a threat to network stability. Export charges applied during this window will act as a signal to system owners to self-consume more of the energy they generate during this time.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/debunking-sun-tax-mb2941/
Here is the current wholesale cost of power at 11:35am QLD time
Notice that the price is negative
Sorry I’m out at the shops and wrangling the kids at the moment, so will do a full reply later.
Solar feed in charges: https://repositpower.com/blog/blog/the-solar-tax-has-arrived-now-what
What is happening now doesn’t matter, as it’s all going to radically change as the AEMO plan states that 60% of all grid storage is home battery storage, and that the power companies draw from this at will - and they’re not going to pay for it. Power companies are in the business of making money, and politicians are in their back pockets for those sweet lobbying dollars and post-politics executive jobs.
To make all this work they need everyone with smart meters, and solar and batteries. What they’re doing now is getting everyone to get them installed via incentives, so when everyone has them they can start stealing your power and charge you for it and there’s nothing you can do.
Solar feed in charges:
yes as i said and from your own link
Solar export tariffs are designed to stop solar being exported to the grid when there is a lot of sunshine about. That means that solar panel owners should put in place things that soak up their solar generation.
there is currently too much cheap renewable power going to the grid during the day
the AEMO plan states that 60% of all grid storage is home battery storage, and that the power companies draw from this at will - and they’re not going to pay for it
no it doesn’t
The claim that "60% of all grid storage is home battery storage, and that power companies draw from this at will—and they’re not going to pay for it" is a significant oversimplification and, in some respects, a misrepresentation of AEMO’s plans and the current state of Australia’s energy market.
What AEMO actually says:
VPPs mate lol. It says that at the end there. When everyone has a smart meter and the only plans available are VPP ones, what do you think the power companies will do with the legislation that allows them to draw all your power from your battery and charge you for it?
When everyone has a smart meter and the only plans available are VPP ones
Who says there will be only VPP ones? And you're saying all 10 million households will have a home battery?
AEMO and the power companies will make sure of it. People without batteries will pay absurd amounts for power, and those with batteries will pay slightly less than absurd prices.
why would people with solar and battery pay absurd prices instead of just disconnecting from the grid?
Because disconnecting from the grid won’t be an option, legally. Not to mention that having enough solar and batteries to go completely off grid would require most households to take out a second mortgage to pay for it.
having enough solar and batteries to go completely off grid would require most households to take out a second mortgage to pay for it.
there are loads of people living off grid up in tara
i have a 6.6kw solar system and 10kw battery (and a smart meter 😧!) and im already 90% off the grid, in 20 years time we may have 40kw solar panels for the same cost as 6.6kw today and 100kw batteries
Because disconnecting from the grid won’t be an option, legally.
sorry are you talking about reality or is this an elaborate blade runner style dystopian fantasy novel you’re writing?
Cool, so you’re not off grid. That last 10% is the hardest part, the most expensive part. The part that stops people from ever being able to be off grid.
The price of solar panels and batteries will only go up as we stupidly base our entire grid, life, and economy around them, especially since we aren’t manufacturing them here.
The government will absolutely make it mandatory to be connected to the grid because that’s the only way their desired grid will function.
Cool, so you’re not off grid. That last 10% is the hardest part, the most expensive part. The part that stops people from ever being able to be off grid.
Stop talking shit mate LOL! it's because I bought my battery in 2022 for 16k, today I can buy a 40kw battery for 6k:
PLUS • Standard Price: $5,999 • OzBargain: $5,899 (Single-phase 10kW, 4 MPPTs + 41.93kWh Battery)
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/925016
I also saw recently 50kw storage:
[NSW, VIC, QLD] 53.2KWH Solis Storage (Alpha Battery)& 8KW Single Phase Solis Inverter $6399 Installed @ Hybrid Solar
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/935342
You know how prices have rapidly come down for solar and batteries? and generation and storage capacities have gone up? I'm making the crazy prediction that this trend will continue... crazy I know!
This is in 2025, do you seriously believe in 2030 or 2040 we'll be back to 10kw storage again? that there will be no gains in solar panels for the next 30 years?
The price of solar panels and batteries will only go up
🤦♂️ The fuck is this? Are you trolling me?
Anyway I'm done with this conversation, I'm not interested in educating you further. good day sir.
especially since we aren’t manufacturing them here.
Shout out to https://tindosolar.com.au/ Solar panels made in Adelaide and https://redearth.energy/ Batteries made in Brisbane and https://www.evos.com.au/ EV chargers made in Brisbane
Anyone buying those 40-50kwh batteries for $5k and expecting them to actually get installed and not be absolutely crap fakes, well I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Both those deals are dodgy as fuck mate lol.
Prices haven’t come down for batteries or solar, not the actual price to consumers. A Tesla solar wall costs more today than they did when they first came out. Cost to produce is not the same as price to customers.
You’re kidding if you think battery prices are going to hit dirt cheap when the entire country literally depends on them because our stupid government are corrupt and incompetent.
A Tesla solar wall costs more today
Of course you want a Muskwall
I bet he's your hero, so many Americans living in Australia these days :(
In other news just got my latest electricity bill:
BRB just plugging in my car to charge it up using solar for free
Love not paying for electricity or gas or petrol
In Victoria, there is already at least one retailer who offers a similar window to households without solar.
Australia has seen such a high uptake in solar panels, that solar rebates are basically down to like 1c/kW except for maybe the shoulders around dusk and dawn.
Makes sense to try and incentivise usage when renewables are pumping, and try to reduce some of the peak time usage which still relies on fossil-powered electricity generation.