this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2025
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Europe

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"Every time Trump or members of his administration have lashed out at Europe, including Ukraine, Europeans have absorbed the blow with a forced smile and bent over backwards to flatter the White House." (...)

"While a systemic answer to Europe’s security conundrum is not in sight, Europeans do have the levers to prevent Ukraine’s capitulation and create the conditions for a just peace."

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[–] Aliktren@lemmy.world 102 points 1 week ago (5 children)

They arent alone, eu, uk, the nordics. canada, australia, japan, taiwan, and a bunch of other nations all have common cause

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 53 points 1 week ago

And even the EU alone does not need to hide from the US. Including the other countries shifts it even more.

It is the US that is becoming more and more alone, especially if we finally do our homework and realise our potential.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

They arent alone

Yes agreed , it's been imo dramatically portrayed as we have been overly dependant on the US to take the lead after WWII. They were able to cut through most internal divisions, and now its enterily up to us.

Time to feel more confident and step out in the World, not as post-WWII Europe or an infant sucking at anyone's tits, but as self conscious and aware Union with it's own character, values and way of life.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 week ago (5 children)

How about falling to fascism and alignment with Russia or the USA, one country at a time? The process of undermining European democracy internally is already well underway.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

How about falling

Yeah how about that? The rise of Facism is most certainly not uniquely a European problem for starters, they are growing roots everywhere There is a whole worldwide culture war going on.

The undermining of Europe has existed for a long while now actually; let's say since after the construction of the Berlin wall. The difference now is that's concentrated in the resurgence of the extreme right, also it seems more widespread , and the last years the efforts by US and or RF and CCP have intensified.

In a very weird way Europe should really thank the UK for the Brexit. If that event hadn't shook Europe to it's core, the anti-EU lobby would now have had a much stronger grip.

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[–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

What about Africa? There's a lot to gain in Africa. It's not all war and corruption, there's plenty of oppertunity to grow business relations. With Europe's declining worker population and Africa's growing population, it might be a good idea to look at emigration or outsourcing opportunities there.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Due to the colonial history most of Africa isn't particularly fond of Europe. And modern France being insensitive on the issue certainly didn't help this lately.

[–] Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What European countries should do is to make a big noise about how the Russia is a colonial empire. There are tens and tens of cultures living under the Russia's fist, without rights to rule their lands and with all their natural resources extracted for the colonizing country's use, leaving almost nothing in the colony itself.

The Russia is just the same as France used to be, and what France still partially is. It is ridiculous that anti-colonialists in Africa end up supporting the only colonial empire that has never done the least to free its colonies even to a small extent.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Very few in Africa are under any sort of illusions about Russia. They just play both sides for their own benefit.

And it is anyways China that has a much bigger influence these days in many African countries.

[–] Tuuktuuk@piefed.ee 3 points 1 week ago

Very few what in Africa are under any sort of illusions about the Russia?

I would say that regarding the people ruling those countries you are either correct or mostly correct, but regarding the general public... I would be surprised if things were as you say. Europe has done nothing about it, the Russia has done a lot about it. How could they have a realistic view of the Russia when nobody is doing anything whatsoever to counter the Russian propaganda anywhere on the whole continent?

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 week ago

Taking in Africans is political poison right now in Europe, and outsourcing local industries has never been super popular even if it makes sense.

I'm sure it will happen, Africa will develop and start taking on lots of low-end manufacturing and similar, and Europe will probably be a very good customer. But, in terms of a strategic alliance for the EU, most African nations are not a contender. South Africa maybe.

[–] redlemace@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

And with a "friend" like today's usa we don't need enemies

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[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

European fascists aren't alone, though, and that's the issue.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (19 children)

It's really becoming a "ideological worldwar" or something. Supposedly there a three geospheres and the main topic is democracy versus autocracy.

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[–] EtAl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (9 children)

I've said this before, but please read American Kompromat by Craig Unger. It details the string of circumstantial evidence that Trump has been a Russian asset since 1986 at least.

[–] Tryenjer@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

CNN Portugal tonight was already distorting the current situation, claiming that Costa's recent statements about Europeans not being subject to US interference were due to Trump saying that Europe would collapse civilizationally in 20 years because of its immigration policies, which is false or at least not the whole truth. Costa said what he said because the USA now considers the dismantling of the EU and support for Eurosceptic parties a priority in its defense strategy.

Europe, betrayed, is under attack.

I would also like to point out that Europe's migrant crisis is largely a result of ISIS and Iraq. Guess who helped cause that clusterfuck? The same country which endless meddled in South America, which has resulted in a lot of migration to said country.

But hey, the US has always been good at sniffing its own farts and avoiding history books. What else is new?

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 2 points 1 week ago

The media are not up to task for this...it's all a reality show to them.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

TIL about Craig Unger goodreads has some nice reviews:

"One of the things I found valuable about House of Trump, House of Putin is that Unger makes clearβ€”if such a thing can be made clearβ€”what a strange, amorphous organism Russian/Ukrainian organized crime can be: equal parts legitimate business and human trafficking, government influence and illegal money laundering, threats of blackmail whispered in darkness and bold murder on the daytime streets."

I think many (should) know most of the story though. But like you say it's circumstancial. You know what I've been thinking lately; what if it was FSB who ordered to off Epstein, afraid he might blow the whistle on this scandals? Wouldn't be entirely wild anymore.

[–] EtAl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

My bet is it was Trump himself who ordered Epstein to be killed. In the mid-November email leak, Epstein talked about having a "silver bullet" that could take down Trump. Nine months later, dude was dead.

Could be FSB though. We might never know.

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

We might never know

It's the interests of US democracy and western democracies to find out though. I hope someone like a journalist finds out. Trump must go.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 2 points 1 week ago

Trump has been a Russian asset since 1986 at least.

Why have the US intelligence agencies done nothing? At least Trump is a double agent, or tripple.

There must be a story of complicated alliances of which we know almost nothing. I am just sure that American billionaires have not handed over the keys to the US to Russia.

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[–] Ooops@feddit.org 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

No, "they" are not alone because those "Europeans" discussed here are not on Europe's side but exclusively their own.

Just like the <1% everywhere else they will simply throw the population under the bus to be on the authoritarians good side as one of them.

Are we -the European populations- alone? Yes, very much so. But that's okay because propaganda-induced brain-damage is for a long time preventing us from even recognizing reality. So we will happily keep voting people into power that are only there to enrich themselves and their buddies while blaming imaginary scape goats... immigrants in most cases still, then LGBTQ+ -as we can see in those countries without relevant immigration already-, probably followed by everyone with another political opinion (if history is any indication), then intellectuals in general because people still thinking on their own -even if they keep quiet- are a risk. And once we reached the "random people have to be the scape goat today"-stage they will all cry out and ask how it could have come that far.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yup. This idea of geographical, ideological alignments or lack thereof between blocs or countries entirely misses what's actually going on. It's why it's rarely revealing and it fails to create useful predictions. Instead I find that looking at the owner class as acting against the working classes domestically and internationaly provides a much better picture of the world.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Wouldn't the US working in ever deeper cooperation with both China and the EU be better for business? Billionaires move pretty easily between all three anyway.

By all appearances they've never fully committed with China because of the ideological gap, and are cutting out the EU now do to new, emerging ideological differences.

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[–] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

FESTUNG EUROPA! FESTUNG DEMOKRATIE UND FREIHEIT!

We shall become the arsenal of democracy!

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

arsenal of democracy

And a democracy with arsenals.

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[–] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago

We are not alone, we have 26 others. That's what the EU is. Not being alone, but being stronger, together.

[–] zuzpapi@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

In the article, it is highlighted the situation with Ukraine.

It is not clear if there are other countries other than the EU that can influence the situation(aside the US and Russia).

However, it is also time the EU becomes a bit egoistic not because it is necessary, but it will help in the future to determine what countries are willing to cooperate in the same manner.

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[–] liking625@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

did anyone think we could rely on a treacherous country such as the US?

[–] orioler25@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Maybe the EU should offer reparations, that'd really stick it to all those nasty other imperialists which it is definitely not aligned with ideologically.

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 2 points 1 week ago (7 children)

That is really complex. The imperialism of France is very different to that of Slovakia for example and the EU has members with everything in between.

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[–] tuskyo@ttrpg.network 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I think we're gonna have another situation like WW2 where Europeans are caught with their pants down and it takes them awhile to realize the gravity of the situation.

I feel bad for all the poor people caught in the crossfire. The rich people will be safe, of course.

Another situation where a dictator believes his own propaganda, thinks European democracies and their citizens are weak and decadent, only to come to the belated conclusion that people are people, that people can become monstrous when faced with any kind of hardship, and you really shouldn't underestimate the descendants of people who collectively killed millions upon millions.

It would be funny if the entirely predictable result wasn't unimaginable suffering.

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