this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2026
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America is rotting, with or without Trump (lemmy.zip)
submitted 1 week ago by dogbert@lemmy.zip to c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
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[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 15 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Was anybody at all saying that this was all the result of sloppy training under Trump? The GOP wasn't saying that, because they praise everything Trump does. The most useless and cowardly of the democrats did mention training, but not as the only issue. Two things can be true: the new recruits that have joined in the last year are undertrained and incompetent, and the entire institution is rotten to the core.

ICE and Border Patrol are rotten. But, it's not just them. All policing in the US needs to be torn apart and rebuilt. Too many bad apples were left in the bunch, and now the bunch has rotted. Police officers really need to believe in their core that their mission is "To Protect And Serve". They can't see themselves as the "Thin Blue Line" between order and chaos. I would bet that the majority of American police would sneer in derision at Robert Peel's principles of policing, when really that should be a bare minimum 19th century historical document that is taken for granted in the modern world.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Was anybody at all saying that this was all the result of sloppy training under Trump?

The Lincoln Project, for starters. Hakeem Jeffries got on the "they just need more training" bandwagon recently. Lots of Op-Eds about how "Abolish ICE isn't helping" have said this

All policing in the US needs to be torn apart and rebuilt.

Preach it

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago

Show me the link where they said it was all the result of sloppy training under Trump.

I'm not saying they never said that the agents needed more training. I'm saying the claim is that it is all the result of sloppy training. That there are no other issues.

[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Policing in general in the USA needs reform. You've got most officers training to use their gun first and ask questions later, like they are at war with the citizens in their jurisdictions. Sometimes that might be necessary, but mostly not. I get the job can be dangerous, but they signed up for it. If the only tool you give them is a hammer, everything becomes a nail.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

Being a cop is a less dangerous job than being a pizza delivery driver. The vast majority of cops go their entire careers without firing a shot except at the range. Yet they act like every time they stop someone for speeding they're about to be murdered.

It's a fact that because of the American gun culture that's more true in the US than it is in most countries. So, maybe as long as the US has guaranteed gun rights and the accompanying gun culture, US cops will be in slightly more danger than cops around the world. But, there's no reason that the job couldn't fundamentally be about keeping people safe vs. shooting bad guys.

[–] 7101334@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Besides the fact that police come from slave-catchers and are an institution which should be entirely abolished, perhaps replaced with state-run SWAT teams for the scenarios that actually require an armed response and community safety officers for everything else, what you're talking about is largely a result of the so-called ""War on Terror"". There was so much extra equipment from the Middle East that much of it was given for free to police officers. Military equipment plus military training (see "The Rise of the Warrior Cop") resulted in police that view and treat America like a battleground and all citizens as potential threats.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

See also, Dave Grossman and "Killology Training."

[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I think an argument could be made that the agencies' rottenness hadn't mattered, that prior to 2025 they would have been this disastrous, but were never broadly deployed in a way where it had such dire consequences as now.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 days ago

I think the agencies' rottenness was a back burner issue. It mattered, but there were so many other things that mattered more. There's also the fact that the victims of awful ICE and Border Patrol agents were almost never Americans. They even knew better than to touch Europeans or rich Asians. As a result, any terrible things they did mostly stayed under the radar.

[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

Trump is the symptom. Capitalism is the disease. Socialism is the cure.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

~~killer~~murderer

[–] doingthestuff@lemy.lol 4 points 6 days ago (4 children)

More than 50 people died in ICE custody under Obama.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Obama was in office for 8 years. So that is 6-7people a year. There are stuff like heart attacks and so forth, which are not exactly the fault of ICE.

Last year 30 people died in ICE custody and until January 9th 4 people died. So 2026 is already at the level of Obamas average for an entire year.

[–] architect@thelemmy.club 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yea we bitched about him too. Unlike you cult followers.

[–] 7101334@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

"Everyone who criticizes a Democrat must support Trump" and 10 other Blue MAGA Braindead Classics.

[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

And double the deportations of Trump 1, still way less than Genocide Joe.
That whole country is rotten from top to bottom

[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 days ago

Point being? The post is about the agency being rotten yes.

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

It's almost like they're part of the same department & leadership corrupting everything they touch. 🤔

While US immigration policy always sucked, the recent lawless abuse of authority (murders, arresting US citizens, violating the constitution, abducting asylum seekers in court, using kids as bait) is something else.

Post needs text alternative.Images of text break much that text alternatives do not. Losses due to image of text lacking alternative such as link:

  • usability
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Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images.

[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

The rot has always been here. Today its coming to the surface.

[–] fyrilsol@kbin.melroy.org 73 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Trump is just accelerating it.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

If it wasn't Trump, it would be somebody else similar.

Some guy like him accelerating the speed of collapse is pretty standard at this stage of the Rise & Fall cycle of Empire (of which the US is most definitely in the Fall stage and has been since maybe all the way back in the late 70s).

The whole "elite pillaging" stage of the last couple of decades in an extremelly nationalist nation with a massive myth of national greatness was bound to deliver a populist strongman that promised to "restore the greatness of the nation".

Maybe you'll be lucky and avoid the whole "overextending itself in a war against multiple enemies / a peer level enemy" kind of thing that also often happens at this stage.

[–] TheBunGod@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

We've been doing that for the entirety of the cold war

[–] MountainVeil@slrpnk.net 69 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Just imagine what these people have been doing at the border with no witnesses for miles.

[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 43 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The 2018 migrant detention centers.

Photo of migrant detention centers. Basically a cage with too many people inside

Apparently people thought this was where "illegal immigrants" stayed when in reality it was asylum seekers.

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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 65 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's what we keep saying - this isn't a blip, it's the acute presentation of a systemic disease that's been developing for decades.

[–] frazw@lemmy.world 61 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's about permission. These guys have always been there harbouring their evil thoughts but the system never allowed them to indulge.

Now they have permission.

[–] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 32 points 1 week ago (11 children)

Americans say their national passtime is Baseball.

The rest of the world says America's national passtime is murder.

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