Dutchie here, before Mark Rutte was SG of NATO he was our PM for over a decade where he earned the nickname Teflon Mark: no scandal sticks, no political storm makes him wet. Why? Because he can say anything in a way that makes you believe he is telling the truth. Before you know it this man has no active memory of any meeting that was about not-joining and suddenly 'remember' a meeting about joining. If you do not want your country participating in this war, do not sit back and relax because this guy says it won't happen. He is not all bad, but i'd advise anyone (except Trump) to not take what he says too serious.
this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2026
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How dare NATO not invoke article 5 because Iran defended themselves!
Well duh, it's a defensive alliance.
So far the only country I'm not appalled by their reaction is Spain. The rest are all so luke warm or plain wtf. Specially Germany. I feel like since WW1 they have an subscribtion on standing on the wrong side. Today they called in Iranian diplomats to tell them they should adhere to the rules of war and not bomb civilians.
Meanwhile Israel started off the war by bombing a primary school & hospital. But that's cool for the German goverment since Israel did not confirm they did it. So they are obviously adhering ho the rules of war.
That goes without saying, given that this is a completely illegal war of aggression. It is inconceivable that the EU is nevertheless acting as if these were allies. This war is a crime and serves to distract from further crimes: in the US, from the fact that the country is run by a fascist pedophile ring, and in Israel, from genocidal fascists whose agent, Epstein, made all this possible in the first place.
It is outrageous that the EU has not withdrawn from NATO and continues to supply weapons to the monsters in Israel.
Most insane to me is that, it’s EU who will have to deal with humanitarian crisis and spend more money supporting Ukraine to offset Russia’s oil profits from increasing prices.
Call me crazy but US seems to have more interest in supporting Russia’s war and destabilizing EU than destroying Iran’s regime. As part of this operation at least
Withdrawing from NATO doesn't make sense. It would probably take upwards of 20-30 years to replace what would be lost by doing that. It's not worth it. I 100% agree with everything else you stated, though.
In that case, better start preparing for that replacement as soon as possible. Ideally way back when the US invoked Article 5 the first time.
I understand your point, but I disagree. I think NATO effectively no longer exists anyway - better to get rid of it sooner rather than later. The US recently threatened a war of aggression against one of its founding members. Now would be the right time to punish the geopolitical excesses of the criminal US-regime by creating a new alliance. The US is only a world power because of its military apparatus, which is financed on credit.
I see no reason not to let the existing world order collapse, because it has brought nothing but misery since the end of World War II.
Edit: There can no longer be any talk of a community of values with the US, as the regime there proves on a daily basis. It is more than unlikely that this will change, as the US population remains passive and will therefore soon be living in a dictatorship that will no longer pretend to be any different from oligarchies such as Russia. Therefore, I think, it makes little difference to orient oneself towards China instead.
I think NATO effectively no longer exists anyway - better to get rid of it sooner rather than later.
De facto NATO is dead, because the US - it's most powerful member - can no longer be trusted. I hope the political leaders of all other Member States see this.
But that doesn't mean it no longer any value. It's main goal has become deterrence, and Russia and China still need to be deterred.
because it has brought nothing but misery since the end of World War II.
This is totally false, you can argue it has brought misery but you cannot say it didn't bring any good.
The 80 years before it's creation (and the creation of the UN) have been much more violent than the 80 years since. Sure Asia and the Global South haven't shared in the peace it brought, but it's not like the west had brought peace there before.
There might be a better future without Nato, but i don't think the world as a whole would've been better off if Nato never existed in the first place. The Sovjet union would probably still be there for example, and except for the ruling class that was not a nice place to live in.
I see no reason not to let the existing world order collapse, because it has brought nothing but misery since the end of World War II.
How can you say that when the whole point of the existing world order was to prevent another World War II, which they have been successful at? There haven't been any wars with as many lives lost as that one ever since, largely in part due to the fact that every time someone looked like they wanted to take over the world again, the rest of the democratic world united to force them where otherwise divided they would succeed.
Don't hold me responsible for this, hold Trump responsible.
Aren't we all learning globally our governments aren't what they tell us they are?
Yes, absolutely. And that is precisely why we should see to it that all politicians who have benefited from this system are eliminated in democratic countries. For western democracies, this is basically synonymous with eliminating US lobbying and therefore includes most established politicians.
However, the democratic process for doing so is significantly hampered by the fact that social media in particular, but also legacy media is owned by billionaires. This ensures that only a minority in a given country is informed about the fact that only of a tiny fraction of the population, the richest 1%, in all Western democracies has benefited from this system while the population got exploited.
For Germany, for example, this means that under no circumstances one should vote for the AfD, because it is MAGA with the same goals and the same influential financiers - just a different brand.
The exploitation didn't really start until the 1980's. Before then, the population was benefiting as well.
No, I live in a functioning democracy, don't normalize your electoral college nonsense on me.
Why would the EU withdraw from NATO? What has NATO done to piss them off?
It's in my comment above, but I'm happy to repeat it for you: By threatening to invade Greenland, the US has threatened a founding member of NATO with a war of aggression.
NATO isn't pissing itself off, just one of its member countries is pissing off all the others: the US.
No shit point to me in the map where Israel is in the North Atlantic.