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The United Nations General Assembly has voted to recognise the enslavement of Africans during the transatlantic slave trade as "the gravest crime against humanity", a move advocates hope will pave the way for healing and justice.

The resolution - proposed by Ghana - called for this designation, while also urging UN member states to consider apologising for the slave trade and contributing to a reparations fund. It does not mention a specific amount of money.

The proposal was adopted with 123 votes in favour and three against - the United States, Israel and Argentina.

Countries like the UK have long rejected calls to pay reparations, saying today's institutions cannot be held responsible for past wrongs.

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[–] Quilotoa@lemmy.ca 47 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Argentina, United States, and Isreal voted against.

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[–] encelado748@feddit.org 68 points 1 day ago (29 children)

I get it is extremely important to remember how bad the transatlantic slave trade was, but I think reparations after two centuries makes no sense. You cannot track responsibility 10 generations separated, you cannot track beneficiaries in a globalized world. Countries not involved in slave trade got indirect benefits through commerce, countries involved are instead not benefiting today from that historic trade. Slavery was common everywhere in the world for millennia. I find it hard to even begin to quantify a reasonable approach to a reparation framework that would work in the context of all the human tragedies in the last 5 centuries.

[–] eatCasserole@lemmy.world 25 points 22 hours ago

You don't have to look at everything in terms of individual responsibility. We can clearly see that the injustices caused by transatlantic slavery, and imperialism more broadly, are very much still here. I think it would be nice to try to remedy this.

Of course, it's non-binding, and the countries that should probably be paying reparations just happen to have all abstained (except for the rogue USA of course, voting against) so I don't expect anything will happen. But it's a nice idea.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 12 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

black people live in slums in my colonial country and many of the exploited african nations.

start by letting them access to at least 20th century amenities and dignified work instead of finding every moral excuse not to.

this thread is full of sensitive westerners born on slave trader countries still rich on the spoils (and sometimes still benefiting from it).

[–] encelado748@feddit.org 4 points 18 hours ago (33 children)

I am a westerner, born in a non slave trader country that never existed before the 1860s. The country before was not a slaver country. The country before that was client state of a slaver country, but just for 20 years! The one before that was not a slaver country. Going event further the country before that was still not a slaver country. Then it was not even a country and still not a slaver one. This until the 1200s when we abolished slavery, so I guess that before then slavery was somewhat ok, but was white people slaves so I do not think that counts.

I think we never became rich on the spoils. We were definitely richer in the 1200s (we were so rich we paid for the slaves to be free!) and for some centuries after that. That was definitely our golden age I would say. Post war recovery after 1960 was also good, but mainly driven by local mechanical industries, not spoils I am afraid.

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[–] carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 21 hours ago (11 children)

are the descendants of the enslaved people still suffering from it? are the descendants of the enslavers still benefitting from it? yes?

then reparations should be paid.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 17 hours ago

It's been too long, and who exactly are you going to blame or get reparations taken from? Hell; If memory serves it was other black people who were gathering up and selling the black people into the slave trade. What you gonna do? Give $40 a piece to 50,000,000 black people, along with an I'm sorry card?

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[–] shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 5 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (2 children)

I agree there are challenges with economic reparations but I do want to point out that the transatlantic slave trade was different from slavery as practiced throughout human history.

It was more cruel than even slavery practiced in ancient Greece and Rome (civilizations which Western nations like to harken back to).

European colonial powers firmly believed in and propagated a global race based caste system. This itself is a crime against humanity but they put into practice the subjugation of people with darker skin, defining them as less human as justification for their enslavement.

Throughout history many civilizations thought other peoples to be inferior or barbaric. But there has not been a global race based caste system based on complexion as colonial era Europeans practiced it.

Entire fields of false science such as phrenology and eugenics sprung from this dogmatic belief in skin tone defining ones worth. The culmination of this vile 'purity' ideology was Nazi Germany and even with the end of that movement, we have not seen the end white supremacist ideology.

This is a very unique problem that still has horrific reverberations to this day. I would not be so quick to absolve European colonial powers and their descendant nation states who still benefit from neocolonialism today. Reparations is a complex issue but I think verbal acknowledgment of accountability and an honest teaching of history would be a start in those nations that have been ongoing beneficiaries of these inhumane institutions.

To summarize, I'll leave you with quotes representative of the worldview of one of the most revered figures in modern colonial/Western history:

​"I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

​"I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."

​"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror."

​"I think we shall have to take the Chinese in hand and regulate them... I believe that as the civilized nations become more powerful they will get more ruthless, and the time will come when the world will impatiently bear the existence of great barbaric nations who may at any time arm themselves and menace civilized nations."

Winston Churchill

[–] encelado748@feddit.org 4 points 17 hours ago

While I agree in part with the sentiment, I think is totally unfair to consider ancient slavery in Greece or Rome as less cruel. It was not less cruel depending on the slave in question. Slaves in mines and agricultural estates were in worse conditions then anything in American south. But if you were an educated slave then your life was indeed better. That also means that was common for slaves in ancient Rome to be able to buy freedom. Slavery was everywhere in society, so the comparison is really hard to make.

There is indeed a racial component in colonial slavery that was not present in ancient Roman slavery. A slave could be from Germany or from Syria and there was no difference in treatment.

I would say that both late trans-atlantic slavery and nazism share a philosophical root in the eugenetic movement, but both grew in parallel with different motives: in one case a justification for economic exploitation, in the other an ideological tool to enforce unity in nationalism.

The transatlantic slave trade started before the concept of race and the eugenetic movement. During the 15th century the justification was more routed in religion and the idea of having prisoner of war being better then to kill the enemy. Still and excuse for economic exploitation, but maybe more akin to what the greeks and romans were doing.

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[–] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 hours ago

Europeans and other monarchy-states are happier still feeding aristocrat and noble pigs, you mean? Yeah, I hear you.

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[–] hansolo@lemmy.today 6 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

Somewhat a bold move for Ghana. Only a few years ago a few of their MPs were terrified of highlighting anything to do with either the Trans-Saharan or Trans-Atlantic slave trade because of the heavy involvement from some local ethnic groups in capturing, transporting, and selling slaves. Which is not honestly actuate considering the lies and economic pressure from the Europeans. Probably just turned the corner after their Year of The Return stuff was so successful.

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[–] Lydon_Feen@lemmy.world 27 points 1 day ago (50 children)

Here's the biggest problem with reparations...

Most slaves were captured and then sold by other africans from competing kingdoms or tribes, to the europeans who would then take them across the atlantic.

Giving reparations to current africans would actually be like rewarding the original slavers.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)
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[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 11 points 21 hours ago

Things always get better when you measure crimes against humanity against other crimes against humanity.

[–] black_flag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 day ago (12 children)

today's institutions cannot be held responsible for past wrongs.

It's not just that they don't want to face the consequences of benefiting from apartheid. They want to continue benefiting from it.

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