this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2026
327 points (98.5% liked)

science

26696 readers
528 users here now

A community to post scientific articles, news, and civil discussion.

dart board;; science bs

rule #1: be kind

lemmy.world rules

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

In a Congressional hearing on Wednesday, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) directly confronted anti-vaccine Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on his rejection of germ theory—the unquestionable scientific idea that specific pathogenic microbes cause specific diseases. After Kennedy defended his fringe view, Senator Bill Cassidy fact-checked and debunked Kennedy’s denialist arguments in real time.

The exchanges mark a rare instance in which Kennedy’s dismissal of germ theory has been raised in such a high-profile public setting, in this case, a hearing of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions. Kennedy, who has no background in science, medicine, or public health, is well known as an ardent anti-vaccine activist and peddler of conspiracy theories. But his startling rejection of a cornerstone theory in biomedical science has mostly been underreported.

As Ars Technica reported last year, Kennedy wrote about his germ theory denialism explicitly in his 2021 book The Real Anthony Fauci. In it, Kennedy maligns germ theory as a tool of pharmaceutical companies, scientists, and doctors to promote the use of modern medicines. Instead of accepting germ theory, Kennedy promotes a concept akin to the discarded terrain theory, in which diseases stem not from germs, but from imbalances in the body’s inner “terrain.” Those imbalances are claimed to be caused by poor nutrition and exposure to environmental toxins and stressors. (In his book, Kennedy erroneously labels this as “miasma theory,” but that is a different theory that suggests diseases derive from breathing bad air, vapors, or mists from decaying or corrupting matter. The idea was supplanted by germ theory, while terrain theory was never widely accepted.)

...

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] uberdroog@lemmy.world 11 points 1 hour ago

How is that even something I have to Read? Fuck these morons.

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 hour ago

Those imbalances are claimed to be caused by poor nutrition and exposure to environmental toxins and stressors. (In his book, Kennedy erroneously labels this as “miasma theory,” but that is a different theory that suggests diseases derive from breathing bad air, vapors, or mists from decaying or corrupting matter.

I mean, let's not pretend that poor nutrition, environmental toxins and stressors, polluted air, and volatile gases don't contribute to disease.

Some diseases are bacterial, yes. RFK Jr.'s denial of germ theory is asinine, and his comprehension of the ideas he promotes is probably tenuous and inane. I'm not claiming that he's on to something.

But let's not lie to ourselves. Let's not fall for the stupidity by running clear to the opposite end of the stupidity.

Disease is complex and often precipitated by multiple factors. And environmental, toxicological, nutritional, and nervous factors absolutely do contribute to disease.

[–] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 14 points 2 hours ago

It is insane to think that he is endorsing a theory that was widely rejected even by Miasma guys in the 19th century.

The miasma advocates were wrong, but they still did many things that were beneficial. The first water treatment plants that provided the first safe drinking water were advocated for by miasma advocates, and the London sewer system, one that is still being used today was also built by them.

Terrain theory? They did jack shit. Just a bunch of crazy nuts who rejected both miasma and germ theory in the late 19th century.

When he dies, I hope they do an autopsy of his body to see how many parasites and infections he had.

[–] CorneliusTalmadge@lemmy.world 8 points 3 hours ago

You mean environmental toxins like germs?

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Lysenkoism.

[–] nulluser@lemmy.world 25 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Those imbalances are claimed to be caused by poor nutrition and exposure to environmental toxins and stressors.

So, like swimming in streams polluted with sewage?

[–] danekrae@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago
[–] leoj@piefed.social 87 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

yikes, dude is gonna be draining the four humors.

[–] pdxfed@lemmy.world 23 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Who's the barber here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edIi6hYpUoQ

What was only recently satire is an actual position.

They will kill you and your kids.

[–] leoj@piefed.social 13 points 6 hours ago

Hopefully not me, I follow medical science, although obviously herd wide health practices will suffer which may result in higher mortality for everyone, even those who follow medical science.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Entertainmeonly@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

The Horseman known as Pestilence.

[–] scytale@piefed.zip 1 points 2 hours ago

There’s also already a horseman for War. Who would be Death and Famine I wonder?

[–] kylie_kraft@lemmy.world 36 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

A kind of Terry Pratchett, Good Omens version, absolutely. "We don't actually have to make new plagues, we just convince enough people that the natural plagues they've already got don't exist, or the causes aren't what they've been told, or that the treatments do greater harm than the disease. In fact, we don't even have to deceive that many. A handful of posts to alternative medicine, conspiracy, and mom's net forums, and human nature will do the rest."

[–] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 3 points 2 hours ago

I need to read that one. Terry was a goddamn genius who got taken from us too soon.

[–] scytale@piefed.zip 49 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

I bet he doesn't wash his hands after using the bathroom. Also, does he not visit the dentist? He should stop getting his teeth cleaned/checked if he thinks germs don't cause disease.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 54 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (5 children)

Pete Hegseth bragged on TV that he had not washed his hands in 10 years, because "germs are not a real thing." These are stupid people.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47201923

[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

These are stupid people.

And yet they were able to fully take over the United States government. Really says something about the movements and institutions opposing them.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

Wowwww, somehow that honestly surprises me that even one of these magats could be this blindingly moronic

[–] SeeMarkFly@lemmy.ml 14 points 6 hours ago

To be fair, when he was young his parents put his swing too close to the wall.

[–] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 10 points 6 hours ago

Fuckin Typhoid Mary. Can’t we exile him to an island for the rest of his life, too?

[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 hours ago

These people are just layers of scourges.

[–] everett@lemmy.ml 9 points 6 hours ago

His hygienist specializes in miasmas.

[–] SGGeorwell@lemmy.world 33 points 7 hours ago (5 children)

This is all an attempt by the rich to reduce numbers of poor people. They need more people dying, so they’re going to pull out all the safety features we’ve built into our society to prolong life.

[–] sundray@lemmus.org 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

To reduce the number of non-working poor people. Or “useless eaters” as the psychotic, billionaire class calls them.

Or “useless eaters” as the psychotic, billionaire class calls them.

More projection, I see

[–] GeekyOnion@lemmy.world 23 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Less “reduce the number,” and more “make the poor more tractable.” The rich still need human carpet to walk on, they just need it to be uneducated, fecund, and desperate to get under their feet.

[–] birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 5 hours ago

Also divided. A divided proletariat (class of wage earners) can make less of a fist against the elite.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 11 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

This contradicts their insistence that children should have children to stop population decline

[–] howl2@lemmy.zip 1 points 54 minutes ago (1 children)

Not really. What they want is for the older generation that has greater disability and likely hood to be drawing on services or retirement accounts to die off. Getting younger people to pop out more worker bees is how they keep the tax revenue flowing into social security etc and never have to pay out if they can kill off the infirm/ unprofitable.

[–] howl2@lemmy.zip 1 points 52 minutes ago

Average life expectancy is dropping in the us while retirement age has increased by a decade. The two numbers are only something like 5 years separated now, maybe 7. Idk Im not looking it up right now.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 11 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Right-wing politics has always been an incoherent ragbag of momentarily convenient positions, insincerely held.

[–] jaycifer@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Is that why they’re trying to restrict birth control and sex education while saying people need to have more kids, so there will be fewer poor people?

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 hour ago

They need people to produce more babies to fuel the wars that they keep starting to keep the population in check.

Checkmate, liberal! /s

[–] SGGeorwell@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

They’re trying to increase the number of white babies born, and reduce the numbers of _everyone else. _

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 11 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Which is short sighted as a healthy populace is what lead to the US economic growth in industry prior to it being redefined as being based entirely on stock market gambling vibes. A strong and healthy populace was a big part of the post WWII boom.

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 hours ago

Short-sightedness is like their chief feature

[–] SeeMarkFly@lemmy.ml 6 points 6 hours ago

That's not what Putin told him. You gotta do what the boss says.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 hours ago

Didn't ancient china have something similiar to the terrain theory?

Source: some Manhua i didn't like.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Don't hold your hand (or god forbid, elbow) in front of your mouth when you sneeze, it's actually racoon penis slime coming out and that is totally fine.

[–] Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (3 children)

It's extremely poor hygiene to sneeze into your hand fyi

[–] sundray@lemmus.org 4 points 4 hours ago

“You cover your mouth with the inner part of your elbow—it’s called the vampire cough!”

“Oh-no!”

“No, it’s all right—there’s no real vampires!”

(From The Office, I forget which episode.)

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 hours ago

This. Because we all know you're going right back to touching everything and getting your sneeze germs everywhere.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

It's better than just letting it fly. You can at least wash your hands after (and you obviously should).

[–] ozoned@piefed.social 7 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

These kinds of things are available to watch and honestly, with this current adminstration, they're incredibly interesting imo. If you care to watch the whole thing:

https://www.c-span.org/program/senate-committee/hhs-secretary-robert-f-kennedy-testifies-on-health-policy-part-1/677979

If you just want Bernie Sander's question it's the second star at about 24:00

[–] Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

It was interesting for me decades ago before i realized these politicians just make shit up all the time and it's boring now. Yes trump admin is definitely the dumbest one ever but idk it just bores me now, this was all stuff us teenagers were crying about under bush and now it's just work.

[–] blattrules@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

Next year, he’ll probably outlaw sneeze-guards at the buffet.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 5 points 6 hours ago

You whats wierd. I was born into a first world country. Kinda. Barely really. Just keeps on droppin.

[–] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

So how do scientists reliably give lab rats diseases we want to study?

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Clearly, scientists are witches and must be burned.

load more comments
view more: next ›