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Trump thinks America is helping Germany by stationing US soldiers there, when in fact it's the other way round - Germany is doing America a favor by providing a strategic base.
That's how stupid this guy is, he doesn't even understand the basics.
Because the only foreign military in America is getting trained to use the equipment they buy from American companies...
He assumes the only reason countries let American military in, is another grift with kickbacks.
He doesn't know what their grift is (likely because there isn't one) but he literally can't imagine anyone doing anything that doesn't benefit them
So he just cancels anything, and expects it to "hurt" like when someone fucks with his grifts.
When people still negotiate because what he cancelled actually has a purpose, he just thinks that means he was right and they're protecting a grift instead of having basic human empathy
I used to live in a city that had a large British base which got shut down during that time. The local media was full of stories of how that would negatively effect the economy and such, but overall it barely made a dent, and not having these drunk soildiers causing trouble every weekend sure was an advantage 🤷
yeah they won’t be missed. also there are still 30.000-35.000 US soldiers in germany.
there are still 30.000-35.000 US soldiers in germany.
But why?
Ignoring the rhetoricity of the question: The military occupation of Germany after WW2 lasting for 45 years (1945-1990/1991) resulted in a lot NATO-standard military infrastructure being already established throughout the country; So when the occupation officially ended the US essentially just figured "why not rent already existing bases instead of building new ones elsewhere".
This is incorrect. Occupation ended in West-Germany in 1955, when the Federal Republic of Germany joined NATO - and it had already been gradually reduced from 1949, when more and more powers were transferred to the German government. Sovereignty was officially granted to the young democracy that year in both foreign and domestic matters, but there were a number of exceptions: The right to station troops (as part of NATO) and to deploy them in Germany in case there was an invasion from the East, even without explicit consent from the West-German government, as well as the right to restore order in case of national unrest, in case it endangered the stationed troops (but this came with the caveat that the German parliament could override this).
This doesn't mean that America (as well as other Western allies like Britain and France) didn't exert a great amount of influence on the young republic, but even under Adenauer already, it was able to forge its own foreign and domestic path and did so often against the wishes of what the West wanted, exhibited sovereignty far more quickly than many (more so in France and Britain than the US, for obvious reasons) were comfortable with this shortly after the end of WW2.
The situation was fundamentally different in East Germany, which remained under strict control of the Soviet Union. This ranged from the relationship between occupying soldiers with civilians to the way even major internal decision making within the ruling party had to get signed off by Moscow. Russian soldiers stationed in Germany were not just there to possibly attack NATO (it was never a defensive force - their doctrine was all about offensive, contrary to NATO), but also to maintain Communist rule in case of a revolution (see e.g. the 1953 workers' uprising in East Germany, the Hungarian revolution, the Prague Spring, etc.). There's a reason the reunited Germany went to great lengths to get rid of these troops as quickly as it could, even paying Russia handsomely to bring them home. When Russian barracks were inspected after the soldiers had left, they were found to having been in an absolutely desolate state.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US didn't just flippantly "figured something out", but instead dramatically downsized its deployment, but kept it active as both a logistics center (same as Britain, which by now have left the country) and as a deterrent against Russia, which despite a thawing of relations with the West still had nukes and conventional troops pointed West. While "Ami go home" was a popular sentiment particularly among the Left and especially when tensions heated up again in the early '80s due to Reagan heating up the arms race with the Soviet Union again (which would ultimately be a major contributor to its downfall, as the mismanaged economy had no chance of keeping up with the West), most people understood that American soldiers on German soil were there to protect them against the Soviets and later Russia, not an occupying force anymore.
This is incorrect. Occupation ended in West-Germany in 1955, [...] exceptions: The right to station troops [...] even without explicit consent from the West-German government
Lol, the occupation ended, except it didn't end. Yeah ok. The actual end of the Allied Control Council was in 1990/1991, following the two+four treaty and reunification. That's when the US (and others) lost rights to station troops in Germany at their discretion and Germany was granted full sovereignty. And until then there had been occupation troops there, doesn't matter that they had been much reduced compared to the first ten years.
the US didn’t just flippantly “figured something out”
I didn't say figuring out, I said figuring. Presented with two choices, close everything down or pay rent, they chose the latter.
but kept it active as both a logistics center [...] and as a deterrent against Russia
Which was all I said, so we agree essentially: “why not rent already existing bases instead of building new ones elsewhere”
There's a reason I contrasted the West-German with the East-German situation. One was clearly an occupation, the other was a lot more nuanced. Perhaps I should have elaborated on just how independent the West-German government was in its decision making even before 1955. This kind of behavior simply isn't possible under anything that can be described as an occupation.
I didn’t say figuring out, I said figuring. Presented with two choices, close everything down or pay rent, they chose the latter.
Alright, fair enough.
This kind of behavior simply isn’t possible under anything that can be described as an occupation.
Well if its still a de jure occupation, by virtue of other countries having rights over the subject country, I think that alone already makes it fair to still call it an occupation. If the occupying powers furthermore do in fact still have active military deployments in the country I am beginning to wonder how you could not call it a military occupation.
to protect us of course. havent found out from whom yet, but i feel really protected right now.
Before Trump, it was pretty obviously meant to protect against Russia as well as part of Germany's integration into NATO - and the majority of Germans were more than fine with it.
The disconnect is you're talking about how it effects the people who live there...
Back in the day, a base would beef up local small businesses, who had to hire substantially more employees, who then spent their wages in town. Now it just means your chain stores take a profit cut. Not many people lose jobs, because there's not that many to lose. The few who do, didn't have much disposable income to spread around anyways
When the local media complains about it hurting an area, they're talking about GDP level stuff. That just doesn't really affect people's day today lives, especially in the short term or if there's corruption that was easting up those funds.
But all over, these a disconnect because billionaires syphon off as much as they can. So things that used to put money in local communities, just don't anymore. So places need to re-evalute if they still have a benefit
The US military employees something like 12,000 German civilians directly. You will need new jobs for them. The US soldiers also spend some money in the local economy. So we are talking maybe 3,000 jobs or so, which can be replaced with some smart government spending if need be.
“I feel no ill will, it’s great, there’s cohesion,” he said of US-German ties. “But it’s not fair that we keep boosting your economy so y’all can make money off us.”
This is such a fucked point of view. What does he expect? That everywhere he spends money should be a US business? That all transactions should be in USD? That all sales taxes should go to the US government? Get fucked. He’s here on German soil using German taxpayer funded infrastructure. My all means, fuck the fuck off back to your shithole country. Once all the Americans are gone I would gladly move in if the lack of demand meant lower rent/property prices.
German town = an us themed restaurant, an high school teacher and some us Soldiers. lol
Get real, you love their dollars, who wants foreign soldiers stationed in your own sovereign country?
Germany is very different in this regard. They haven't been perceived as occupiers in ages and rightfully so. Until Trump began destroying the close relationship with Germany, US soldiers on German soil weren't seen as much of an issue. It's not like they were omnipresent after the end of the Cold War, outside of close to where they are stationed. You'd occasionally spot a handful e.g. on the train (although these days, you're more likely to come across Mormon missionaries, at least it feels that way) and it's not like anyone has an issue with their easygoing nature. British soldiers had nowhere near as good of a reputation, by the way. It had nothing to with the British government, but rather with the behavior (often drunken excesses) of poorly disciplined conscripts stationed here and the (to Germans) shockingly rough discipline imposed on them by their officers and MPs.
That's not to say that US soldiers being stationed here wasn't controversial at times. When Bush Junior started his illegal war against Iraq (an immensely unpopular thing in Germany - I was one of millions protesting against it), the fact that Germany was a major logistics hub in the war despite not officially participating (it only secretly did) was being heavily criticized. Earlier during the Cold War, when Reagan had his "Star Wars" moment, it led to a surge in anti-American sentiment, since Germany would have become an irradiated battleground between the two superpowers in case of a hot war, so anyone heating it up wasn't exactly looked at fondly. By the time Bush Senior was in office, the whole thing had cooled down again though and shortly afterwards, the whole thing was over anyway.
get real, who wants anyone from anywhere if not for the money – be they tourists or soldiers