poopkins

Brace for downvoting from the Teslaholics cult.

What I've learned from insightful interactions in this thread is that Teslas are in fact the best car in existence, bar none. This whole situation about Elon Musk deciding to speak up as a fascist is just all very unfortunate. Other than the fascism thing, the only nits with Tesla is the image, and the countless broken promises, deceit and outright fraud should be ignored because other companies lie and cheat, too.

I certainly have; I bought a VW four years after the TDI emissions scandal. I'm by no means immune to this.

As an aside, the fact that the Wikipedia article didn't exist doesn't mean the issues cited in it weren't already widely reported in the media. Some infamous court cases go back to 2017, including SEC fraud and union busting. False claims have been Elmo's standard operating procedure with promises such as full self driving and range first becoming broken beginning 2016, and speed of supercharging and battery swapping in 2013.

This is of course to say nothing of the outright taxpayer fraud of Hyperloop and the Boring Company, but that's a story for another day.

If you're curious, here's a nifty website that's been tracking his truthiness: https://elonmusk.today/

That's completely relatable. I was in the market for a new car in 2019 and ironically chose for VW despite the emissions scandal.

For me, buying a car remains a multi-year investment, because I bought it to serve a purpose over an extended period of time. I ran the numbers for 10 years between different manufacturers, each with different base prices, but also prices for subscriptions, service and repairs, and contrasted against long term costs of alternatives like public transportation. What exactly defines an investment is somewhat of a grey area and I guess the same logic would disqualify a home as an investment. The only real difference is that a car is always a bad investment (unless you take Elmo at his word).

It's unfortunate that the dealership situation has weighed in to your decision, as Tesla abused their position as a new entry into the market to be exempt from state franchise laws. Most other car manufacturers have been selling cars longer through the conventional dealership model and are literally forbidden from adapting. Some states have maximum market share requirements which were put into place after the popularity of Tesla took off, effectively squeezing new entrants like Rivian out of state markets like Washington. This issue is more about state regulations and how Tesla uses and abuses its power to increase their profit margin.

I'm not at all arguing in favor of dealerships—don't get me wrong. But the fact that Tesla doesn't have them is not because of any innovation, but an unfair competitive advantage.

That's an odd position to take. Fraud is okay since others commit fraud as well? Not many companies have a Wikipedia entry documenting their ongoing deception and fraud since 2017.

My position on Elon Musk and Tesla by extension is clear. If you are supportive of them, that's completely up to you.

I understand your rationale, that makes sense.

Perhaps my priority is different, as I don't make a habit of making investments with companies that have well documented track records of misleading and lying to customers. I didn't buy a Tesla then, and I wouldn't now, and the only thing that has changed is the public perception. That, for me, is secondary to the trustworthiness of the company.

If you knew then that he was a liar, then I really don't see how you can complain about it now. You evidently knew which business you were getting into.

But if the scam was already running for three years, then it seems all the more sensible not to trust this person, no? How is it better that people are still falling for his lies after a decade?

Are you suggesting that full self driving was fully implemented by 2019? Because it's 2025 and it's still not ready. How have I failed at math?

You're saying the addition of Copilot into MS Paint is anything short of revolutionary? You heretic.