this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2026
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Every year I see more on the map. Have a solar node, good fun.
Ever useful? I doubt it, HAM would dominate in a collapse.
In a true emergency? Yes, HAM is the way to go and I need to get around to buying one of those super sketchy Baofengs. In theory you can configure them to use without a license (which is also on the todo list) but it is super easy to tick into the licensed use. How much people will care will mostly depend on whether your local HAM folk are narcs. But, regardless, all bets are off in a true emergency and Baofengs are dirt cheap.
But in a "the internet is out" situation? Or even a "please evacuate in a calm and orderly fashion" for a wildfire or a bad hurricane? That is where meshtastic (et al) shine and it is well worth convincing friends to pick up a t-deck or whatever. Excellent for the "is it out for everyone or just me?" checks. Also useful for letting people know which field can see a cell tower a county or two over for emergency communication or to even coordinate whether you are all gonna head North or South to hang out for (hopefully just) a few days.
And anyone thinking of using any of that for stuff the government don't want you to: You are an idiot and you need to learn about how insecure all of those are.
No wonder they're insecure with you calling them idiots all the time.
🫣
You just can't legally transmit without a license. You can own a ham radio and listen all you want.
Perhaps where you live.
Internet 101: Laws aren't the same everywhere.
Edit: My point wasn't specifically about amateur radio (I'm also one) nor where I live, but about the old-as-the-internet habit of people scoffing about what is and isn't legal without even knowing where the person they're replying to lives.
On the radio front, numerous countries require licences to legally listen to public broadcast radio (Switzerland, Slovenia and Montenegro are examples). If your handy dandy Baofeng UV5 can pick up broadcast FM radio frequencies, in such countries it will fall under licencing requirements even if you never transmit.
Out of curiosity: where do you live where listening on ham requires a license?
In the US and other countries I am aware of, listening is allowed without a license (how would one even enforce such a thing?). In fact, you can even transmit on a ham radio in the US without a license provided there is an immediate risk to life or property.
Keep in mind that without working repeaters, the baofeng will only have a range of a few miles on level ground with nothing in the way. If the power goes out, most of the repeaters will go down too. Some have battery backups that may last a few hours to a few days. Depending on where you are, a few may be solar powered, but heavy use will drain the batteries. Some repeaters are also reliant on the internet for linking to increase the coverage area.
What you really want in that case is a portable HF radio and a wire antenna you can string up over a tree branch or a support with a fishing pole. In the daytime, you can use the upper HF bands for long distance communication. That has a range of thousands of miles, but nearby stations won't be able to hear you if they are beyond line of sight. Since the portable radio doesn't have much power, you may need to use digital modes to get through. For more local contacts you can use NVIS propagation on the lower HF bands. That has a range of several hundred miles and can even be used to talk to someone on the other side of a mountain. Even 5 watts and an antenna strung 3 feet off the ground can work for voice contacts out to over a hundred miles.
I'd be interested in reading a debate thread on Lemmy about this.
What the pros and cons to different communication methods are following a disaster that neutralizes mainstream methods of communication.
Benn Jordan just did a video on Meshtastic and other decentralized tech, so I'm inclined to believe in mesh technology. But I'm also curious about the high frequency stuff you mention
I don't know much about radio stuff, but ever since I learned about LoRA I've wondered what kind of range a station could get if the longwave or AM bands were repurposed for use with a spread spectrum digital protocol. And what kind of bandwidth something like that would have.
I think being able to do datacasting over really long ranges would be useful, so, for example, you could send emergency alerts to people even if the local cell infrastructure was down. But with the way things are headed I guess that role will be taken up by satellites.
For LF and MF, you typically want narrow signals, not spread spectrum. It's hard to make wide band antennas for such low frequencies and propagation can change a lot in just a few tens of kHz.
I see
In your opinion is there anything useful we can do with that part of the radio spectrum as those stations switch off, or are those frequencies going to be silent in the future? Will they be turned over to hobbyists maybe? (or would the power requirements be too high at those frequencies?)
The AM broadcast stations aren't going anywhere, at least in the US. Above the broadcast band is mostly aircraft, marine and the 160 meter ham band. None of that is likely to change.
Below the AM broadcast band are non directional beacons. Those are slowly being decommissioned. Eventually they will all be gone and that spectrum may get repurposed. I don't know what the spectrum may get used for, but it would be nice if the 630 meter ham band was expanded.
LF and MF can be used at low power. The 2200 meter ham band has a power limit of 1 watt EIRP and the 630 meter band has a limit of 1 or 5 watts EIRP depending on the country. Actually radiating that much power is difficult because it's not practical to build an efficient antenna. Luckily there is no limit on how much power the amplifier can put out, so we can put hundreds of watts into a very inefficient antenna. Narrow band digital modes work great on those bands.
In the US, we have LowFER, which allows hobbyists to use 160-190 kHz for experimental use without a license. The power limit is 1 watt input and the transmitting antenna is limited to 15 meters. People still manage to make long distance contacts with those significant limitations.
The four repeaters in my area are run by one club. They do the Field Day exercise every year and from what I remember they run them around 150w per repeater. A small jenny could run those fuckers on 15gal a day fairly easily. In a huge emergency, though, you can relay morse on just 5w through 5 or less relaying techs to most of the world without repeaters at all. (1 if you're lucky, but I'm being fair to real life interference).
You legally need a license for HAM in the US, but there's nothing really preventing anyone from configuring a radio to licensed frequencies. As for HAMs reporting you, if it's an emergency the FCC rarely fines anyone if it's for medical or safety concerns, were any amateurs to even report you. The whole reason for the Tech license for example is just to know laws and rules for operation. It's damn easy, too. License exam was $25 a few years back, 8 year term. All the questions and answers are avilable online, they just pull (35? I think) from the pool of 400. Most is pretty basic rules of common sense and civility, a few laws. Most tech questions are just converting frequencies and basic math. They don't require morse anymore (Thank god, or I'd never pass). And if you pass the Tech, you can go right back in for free to try the next exam level. I never use mine, but I do have an HT I keep charged in case of emergencies.
I think many people are unaware that you don't need Morse anymore tbh. This makes the license extremely easy to get, but the knowledge you can get from ham radio is off the charts.
FYI, it's not HAM (not an acronym)-- just ham. Named because the people fucking around with radios were "hamming it up", back in the day.
What about more extreme cases, say Castaway (movie) type situation. Stranded on an island in middle of nowhere.
But conveniently, one of the packages has a functional 2m battery powered radio and a Yagi too. There's no one you can make contact with, except... the ISS.
What if the ISS was the only station you could contact?
"Hello International Space Station, I am stranded on an island after a plane crash. Can you help?"
One of the coolest things in my opinion about radio is the ability to skip off the upper atmosphere and bounce a signal back down halfway across the globe. You can also bounce a signal off the moon.
2m doesn't bounce off the atmosphere. You really need 10m for that. 6m in the mist perfect ideal scenarios but it's still very rare (and in this scenario you aren't gonna know when). EME (the moon stuff) is also pretty tricky and requires a lot of power because of how messed up the signals get in the process.
Without a way of knowing which satellite passing overhead was the ISS, in the narrow windows each day where you could see them well enough to correctly point a Yagi at one, you'd quickly run out of battery before making a relevant contact. Also the people on the ISS rarely listen or respond, the most used ham equipment on the ISS is basically a glorified repeater so you'd also have to get above the pileup of all the satellite chasers just trying to log contacts.
I've been thinking about ordering some but I'm getting some analysis paralysis just looking through the options, any recommendations on a cheap unit I can hand out to some friends, I dunno if I truly need solar, but I guess it's not a bad option
They sell 2 helteks so you can play around with them for about 50$. Used to be around 30. I have a couple, they do decently well.
Get a TIDRADIO TD-H3 instead of a Baofeng. Essentially the same price but a nicer feature set.
Also, be sure to get the GMRS one. They're all the same and can be reset to any mode, but the way the law with FRS/GMRS works is technically the part itself (the radio) needs to be certified.
It's very important that you do not reset it and use it improperly. I would never do such a thing and I suggest you don't either.
By all means enlighten the idiots. Start with meshtastic's weak encryption.
Ham radio played a massive role while the Internet was out following hurricane Helene. https://youtu.be/w8hSHq8dGsA
Yes. For true emergency/disaster relief, that is the baseline. I doubt most of the meshtastic repeaters will survive a real storm and you can bet people will be spamming/attacking longfast from the comfort of their homes a county or three over. And there is no good way to communicate proper regional channels ahead of time.
But not every internet outage is a disaster. I live in a region where it is not uncommon for construction crews to cut the fiber line and take out all traffic for the county... sometimes multiple times a month... And I can speak from experience that having a mesh network with locals is incredibly useful for "Yes, it is all of us. And Verizon/Tmobile/Spring is also out" as well as "If you go to the park on 5th and MLK you have line of sight to a working cell tower". And even just "So... I got all of Frasier on my Plex if anyone wants to hang out for a few hours".
If you whip out your emergency HAM radios (without a license) during that? You can bet ALL the narcs are gonna tattle on you because "you weren't prepared".
But even during the prelude to a disaster it can be an issue. We also have wildfires in the region and get a pretty big scare maybe once a decade. Last time we were in a state of "be ready to evacuate at a moment's notice" for the better part of a week. And just a bit of gossip that "today is going to be the day" was enough to trigger panic and clog up cell service faster than you can say "9-11". We even got an emergency push telling us that there were no planned evacuation orders for the day and to go about normal activities.
If you are someone frantically trying to figure out where the school took your kids? Yeah, you have an emergency. If you are someone who doesn't have a strong support network trying to figure out what is even going on? The narcs are gonna whinge at you. But, like I said, it is very useful to coordinate your evac with that support network. You can plan ahead of time to try to all get hotels/campsites in the town a few hours North. Then you drive through the hell of the evac until you get a few cell towers away, pull over, and use an app to book a hotel/campsite. But if all the people with families have to go South to pick up their kids from the school drop off site? You can only communicate when you are all an hour or three away from town and... ain't nobody going back through that traffic snarl.
Hopefully it ends up being a false alarm and you come back a week or two later to some smoke damage (that everyone TOTALLY fixes...) and not much else. But it's the difference between a week or two where you are able to hang out with your friends and have some degree of normalcy versus a week or two isolated and worried that you are going to lose everything.
And that is where mesh networks thrive. I am not talking about "I have a repeater in my garden" (which I should get on...). Stuff like the t-deck is what is actually useful. Plug it in, turn it on, and the pseudo-blackberries mesh with each other well enough for coordinating because enough people in town are doing the exact same thing.
One thing that people trying to make Meshtastic/Meshpro/whatever work might want to try:
odds are that your town/community have a social media system that is generally used to discuss events and the like (probably facebook, sometimes reddit). Make a post on there basically providing a link to a "getting started" guide and the credentials/key for the local mesh.
And, most importantly: Schedule an event (maybe every other month or once a quarter) where everyone with a device should turn theirs on and either be near a window or stand outside. That is a great way to rapidly detect all the temporary nodes that might only exist during a "not emergency" and for people to debug all the messes because meshtastic is a cluster.
I guess here the topic is more of insurrections, like what's happening in Iran right now or how it went on in HK
How fast could a group of 5 people that want to remove all nodes in the area need to do so? Are they all listed on a map with their location?
Mine is on a map, but in a radius of around 10 miles. Close enough to let people know I'm here, but not accurate enough to easily track me down.
That said, if someone wanted to hunt me down, they certainly could triangulate me pretty quickly.
Yeah all they would need is a small RTLSDR and they make them directional for police and such. Its how they get people interfering with police/fire/etc..etc... on different channels. At 1W or lower its going to be a bit hard to find, but anyone determined would be able to triangulate pretty quick.
Is it meshtastic? I'm pleasantly surprised by how much it's grown around me in just a year
It's cool yes. But my wonder is if it will be on anyone's mind when things go south.
In a lawless world, could you trust anyone that said hello back?
I think the point is to keep in contact with friends and family. Maybe it would be used to blast news or alerts in a time of war idk yet, I just ordered some radios a few days ago and I am waiting to get started with it.
HAM will work best for long distance communication but does not have enough capacity to support local short messaging for any major population sizes. Mesh networks scale in bandwidth and will not be overwhelmed as easily if tens of thousands of people suddenly hop on it at the same time.
Yep its a fun hobby though!
I never could really get ahold of anyone to talk to, most Elmers in my area died. So I just use the license as an emergency line. Talked a few times on my HT, but most HAMs in my area use their cell phones nowadays.
how do i make it go?
Check out the Quickstart: https://rootaccess.org/wiki/Meshtastic/
There are others but this is from a local makerspace and I have personally done this setup. It works well, as long as there is a node in a high place.
Honestly though its a hobby not something that can be relied on unless your whole community gets together. Hope you have fun!
thanks amigo