this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2025
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Users on Lemmy.ml or Lemmygrad.ml tend to be Marxists of some kind, which means they tend to have similar analysis, though many Lemmy.ml users aren't Marxists, but also Anarchists or even liberals.
I'm fully aware. That doesn't change my statement. That's not even relevant to the discussion.
Are you saying its ok for for them to simply gesture and posture rather than grapple with arguments? I really don't see why you typed that.
Your statement was empty, though. You just dodged having to engage with the argument. You were the one gesturing.
You can read through this post. I've commented many times. I don't feel the need to have the same conversation with multiple people who all share the same lack of motivation to do anything besides sit on the sidelines and jerk each other off about how their preferred method of governance would fix everything while they can't even be bothered to do the most base civic duty to push for the change they allegedly want. Its fucking exhausting.
And for the record I think capitalism is a fucking virus. I also think people who refuse to engage with the system to change it have no right to complain about it. The US is the most militarized police state in the world. You aren't helping shit by telling people not to vote. Your actively damaging all the work others are doing.
Bold of you to think leftists believe voting to be the most base civic duty to push for change, and not organizing and revolution.
I am a leftist. As I'm sure you know there are many different creeds.
Reformist anticapitalists are in the extreme minority.
All leftists are the minority in America.
Source: Trust me bro.
There are many like me. I also spent almost a decade in the military and you are not going to win a revolution without getting the backing of at least part of the government and last I checked there weren't any Communists to back you up at the moment.
Oh you were in the military
How many nonwesterners did you murder, gestapo scum?
Among Marxists and Anarchists, the 2 most common umbrellas for anticapitalism by far, reformism is seen as a "solved question," as in it doesn't work outside of very extreme circumstances in Global South countries. The fact that you can recognize how millitarized the US state is, and think you can ask it nicely to leave, is cognitive dissonance.
I'm not here to debate which type of leftist I am with you. This is just a tangent that serves no purpose for our discussion.
Sure, then we circle back to how you suggested it isn't worth engaging with "commies" rhetorically, on account of them being "commies."
I did not suggest that. I stated that if you refuse to accept the reality of the situation then no one will engage with you regardless of which title you choose to give yourself. That's why the dems lost lol
In what way are "commies" refusing to accept reality? Why did the dems lose?
The dems lost because they refused to accept the reality (they ran a shit candidate with an uninspiring platform all the while not doing a primary). Stop trying to paint me as some fucking anticommunist. It all comes down to the fact that if you refuse to engage with this system you will never be able to enact meaningful change. If you want representation either put it there yourself or pick the candidate closest to your viewpoints while organizing. Both are possible.
You're so close.
If you only allow yourself to work within the system specifically designed to not change, you will never get change. The only way to get change is organizing.
Incorrect. I don't know if you live in the US but its fairly clear to me that we can enact meaningful change from within. Look what trump is doing. Why couldn't we have a leftist version? Be the change you want to see.
We can't have a Leftist version of Trump because Trump is an agent of Capital and thus representing Capital's interests. Do you think he's some kind of force of nature outside the scope of the system set in place to protect itself?
Trump is not an agent of capital. Trump is an agent of his own ego. I'm old enough to remember when he was bankrupting the casinos in my home state. He is forcing the system to cannibalize itself in order to turn himself into some kind of king. It's not really about the money to him. He is showing just how malleable the framework is even though it only benefits the mega rich who are currently guiding some of his less ego driven actions because they bought his presidency via social media and corporate news. Why would you have a problem with a person of the people in his position bending the framework back our way?
I just did a dab so I'm gonna log off here for now but I would enjoy continuing this discussion with you later.
Nothing you've said is backed by data, though. His actions regarding trying to restart USian industry as a reaction to the PRC playing the long game and winning by focusing on building up industry shows just how fragile financialized Capital is in the face of actual productive forces. His ego plays a part in his own actions, sure, but the reason he was even backed in the first place is because Capital wants him, or Kamala. It's not a grand, unopposed system to turn him into a king, this reaks of idealist analysis and removes us from Materialism.
I don't have a problem with a Communist doing the same, I have a problem with the suggestion that it's even possible. The system allows Trump to do what he wants because Capital wants him to. In countries where Leftists have won electorally, such as Chile or Burkina Faso, coups and millitary overthrows occur and go against the will of the people, favoring Capital instead.
Enjoy your dab, though!