Comment and thread in question: https://lemmy.world/comment/23138585
Ban from that community, memes@lemmy.ml:
Rule 1 of said community: Be civil and nice.
Rule 1 of said instance: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
I was clearly not bigoted in any manner, and I believe more civil than the way I was treated, was it the Code of Conduct? Excerpts:
Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.
I think I was kind with the people I disagreed with, even if they could not be in return, yet those comments (some including ableist slurs) remain. I think this is enough to demonstrate it is merely a difference in ideology which motivated the ban. Well, bans, because it seems they copied and pasted the same ban in all the communities they have access to:
It's not a general lemmy.ml ban, just those in particular.
I understand this kind of behavior in safe space communities that don't want outsiders bellyaching about the pragmatism of electoral politics, but that's not the case in any of the communities I've been banned from, nor is it a part of the instance rules or CoC.
PTB or triggered shitlib? Not an exclusive or, of course.
Has that actually happened though? There are certainly many issues Democrats have been improving on since Clinton.
Irrelevant, I don't care why they lost, I'm asserting that they would have been better. Thank you for your soapbox though.
Sure, but those voters are also to blame for the non-genocide issues which get worse when the Democrats lose.
This is simplistic thinking which ignores the reality of the situation. The only thing a voter can do in a general election is pick the party that more closely aligns with their values, that does not mean ALL of the party's values are the voters, but simply the more palatable one.
So yeah, genocide sucks, but not doing your electoral part means all the extra bullshit Republicans do[1] is what you voted when you abstain.
1: since clearly the people who have problems with what I say don't care about minorities being harassed, kidnapped, and killed, I'll keep it simple with "doing nothing about the climate catastrophe" and "being egregiously pro-business/anti-consumer," maybe with a side of "overwhelmingly anti-labor."
Oh thank you for asking, I have actually.
There's no way you can be serious. How sheltered are you?
Are you like some rich white guy who has no working class friends or something? I genuinely don't understand.
mate. i appreciate you being open and proving that banning you was the correct choice.
who exactly began the mass deportations? how I live the free healthcare that Biden gave us instead of funding a genocide.
people like you is exactly why this nation is now a fascist shithole.
I think you might be replying to the wrong user, though OP got instance banned, so I think they can't hear you anyways
sorry, I might have misclicked.
clinton. obama started the concentration camps that trump is now sending families to.
what, you thought democrats were somehow better on immigration? clinton deported two million more people than bush did. obama changed the system to favor speed over fairness, resulting in record numbers of deportations. most of whom were not dangerous to anyone. every time we get a democratic president, they use the tools republicans created to drastically increase the suffering of minorities, and increase state surveillance of americans while decreasing civil rights.
the whole system is rotten to the core
How sheltered are YOU? America is a conservative country and things change slowly, but they do change. Some thing have improved in my lifetime, I don't think that's a controversial statement. Just because capitalism hasn't been completely overthrown yet doesn't mean there is no change.
I'm a union rep, so not sheltered at all. I have a front row seat to the degradation of society. Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Sure, some things have improved, nobody is denying that. Some things have improved, but many more significant things have gotten worse. The thing is, the stuff that has improved is like +5 improvement, and the things that have gotten worse is like -100.
TVs are cheaper, but food, rent and childcare are more expensive, all relative to wages, just for an example.
I want to go back a step, and try to understand you here. What do you do for work?
Thanks for your work! I was in a union all the way up until I retired last year. They are becoming more and more rare these days, sadly.
Well, except the acceptance of queer people, of course. Women's lib is also much more widely accepted, if we're going that far back.
Nobody except you?
I don't disagree.
I do unskilled labor.
Despite the bigotry of republicans and the disgusting cowardice of democrats, yes. Not sorry your side lost that one. Don't worry, centrists are still desperate to throw queer people under the bus for you.
I am trying to have a good faith discussion with you here and you are literally saying I am denying something while quoting me NOT DENYING IT.
No fucking way you're not a troll. Absolutely unbelievable.
Literally nobody in a blue collar job says this, hahahaha.
Nice try, OP, but the game is up. You're a fucking liar.
Sorry bud you don't get to pull "good faith" because you later admit that things have improved. If you want to have a discussion then maybe open with "yeah some things have improved" instead of denying it until it's inconvenient. Well actually you opened with "Lmfao you are such a shitlib" so forgive me if you've now decided to be less of a cunt.
Sorry for not posting personal information, buddy.
So you agree that Democrats have not consistently gotten worse on every issue then? And therefore both evils are not getting more evil over time?
If you really want a good faith discussion, stop making assumptions about why I disagree with you and address my points.
Sorry to butt in but I figured I should start identifying the logical fallacies I've been referencing.
This is an invalid inference. Dems aren't getting worse on every issue ≠ Dems aren't getting more evil over time
if they want to have a conversation, they should probably find somebody with the mental capacity to actually have one.
That's ableist honey
you were warned to cut out the honey. apologize now, and stop doing it.
Sorry I don't apologize to facsists. The only good nazi is a dead one
You literally excuse fascists you like. Follow your leader and your final sentence.
ok, that'll be enough from you forever. goodbye, and may you trip down every stair you ever take.
oh, did you instance ban them from db0 or just anarchist.nexus? will they see my replies here still, and also be able to reply?
I banned them from AN. They were banned by the dbzer0 admins too tho. They won't be replying.
Understood, fair enough. You know what they say, scratch a liberal and all that.
after you honey
Nah dude, why would I continue to discuss with you in good faith at this point? You are so obviously arguing in bad faith. You have no points. You are wrong. If you self-reflect, you'd KNOW you're wrong. You know how Trump supporters refuse to confront reality because they're so deep in denial? That's you. 100%.
This is exactly how you get banned. You deserve it. Bad faith liar who supports fascism.
Bye bye, blue MAGA. You fascist freaks are history.
Because you said you wanted to understand?
Sorry buddy but that's just me matching your energy, you couldn't even go one reply in good faith. I matched your good faith energy when I got to that portion of your reply, and you immediately call foul. Now that seems like bad faith.
mhmm right, everyone you disagree with obviously knows they are wrong but just won't admit it.
Wow so because I disagree with you... I'm some kind of... Blue MAGA? How original, definitely not a thought terminating cliche.
Okay, you know what, I'm a really nice, reasonable guy, so I will give you another chance.
If you try your best to tell the truth instead of lying, try to assume good faith, hold back on personal attacks, don't misrepresent my positions, or strawman my arguments, then I'm sure we can talk this out. If something seems unclear or unreasonable to you, ask what I mean instead of assuming, and I will do the same for you.
Now, let's have the truth: what do you do for work? You don't need to dox yourself, just share what industry you work in. I promise, I won't judge you, whatever it is. If you're a landlord, a cop, that's all fine, let's just have an honest, good faith, dialogue and exchange of ideas. Doesn't that sound nice?
Now see, that doesn't seem like such a nice-guy good faith thing to say. I haven't been lying, and I don't appreciate you purporting that.
But okay, sure, I mean I wish we could have started with "hold back on personal attacks, don’t misrepresent my positions, or strawman my arguments," don't know why that wasn't an option, but let's go.
Unskilled labor, retail. That's it. There are thousands of different jobs in different industries that are largely identical to mine, because I deal with customers. No, we don't have a union.
Okay, wonderful! Thank you for sharing.
I'm gonna just go ahead and outline a few of my beliefs - but of course this is not an exhaustive list - and you can let me know what, if anything, you disagree with, and we can take it from there. I hope that sounds good to you.
I believe that, under capitalism, money is power.
I believe that the more money you have, the easier it is to make more money.
I believe that almost anyone with any power would be willing to use that power to benefit themselves.
I believe that both mainstream political parties in the US have been nearly completely captured by the extremely wealthy.
I believe that the mainstream media serve the interests of the extremely wealthy.
I believe that the extremely wealthy have an outsized influence over independent media and social media platforms.
I believe that the extremely wealthy generally prefer fascism to socialism, because socialism threatens their class interests (i.e. their ability to accumulate and hoard wealth, and therefore power)
What do you think? Do you agree or disagree with these positions?
Yeah
Yeah
I guess? Seems kinda vague, like yeah people will do what they can for their own self interest, but there are exceptions and limits I think.
Yeah, but I think change is possible, and even barring change, sometimes enough pressure can move them on certain issues.
Generally yeah
Yeah
Yeah
Thank you for your responses, I appreciate it. Glad to see we broadly agree!
Yes, people will do what they can for their own self interest, exactly. By exceptions and limits, what do you mean by that? Like, people have their own ethical boundaries?
I agree with that - "certain issues" being the operative phrase there. I believe that, as long as it does not conflict too strongly with the interests of the extremely wealthy, they are willing to move in progressive directions, or regressive directions, in response to pressures from the voter base and from influential special interest groups.
By the way, feel free to share your own beliefs and positions - or something else entirely - I don't want to dominate the direction or framing of this conversation, I just opened with this because I wasn't sure what else to open with.
Women who are being forced to be baby factories, jump through hoops to vote, must still accept "no fault" divorce (IF they can afford it) and walk away with nothing after decades of unpaid labor, physical, sexual, financial, and psychological abuse... gtfoh.