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‘I don’t date at all now’: one woman’s journey into the darkest corners of the manosphere
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2025
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I can't comprehend how people can make such a statement when the same logic applied to race instead of gender would make them (righteously) scream bloody racism.
I'm not responsible for the actions of someone who has the same genitals as me, no more than someone with the same skin color.
Ironically that poster is an Israel supporter. By their own logic every Israeli should be victim of default "suspicion" and be treated like an IDF war criminal, since everyone has the "potential" to be one.
Actually, this argument would be even more compelling since Israel does have elections and you can emigrate/renounce to your citizenship, both not possible in case of manhood.
It's bizarre that someone could come up with such a poor argument that ultimately boils down to: "people should be accountable for the actions of other people in the same demographic", without realising there are tons of way you can divide people in demographics.
Sudneo! Answer these questions:
Do you agree that stalking women is bad behavior?
If you discovered a person who was stalking a woman, would you seek to intervene?
Don't yadda-yadda about what the argument was to me—I don't care. I want the answers to these two questions.
Note that both the answers are independent on whether the stalker is a man or not.
Perfect.
As an allegedly misandrist, man-feminist critical of Men's culture broadly, I am telling you this: these are the only two things you need to believe in.
I am tasking you with the responsibility of simply wanting a better society. If you see any person being harassed or chauvenistic or socially ignored because they're not "in the club," man or woman, and no matter the debate on which demographics tend to do what more often—if you have the heroic urge to help someone, that's all you need.
This might sound a bit like I'm asking you to do something you already do, but if that's true, that's even better! A lot of people out there think of themselves as heroes but are easily swept away from the call to action by things like the bystander effect or simply not wanting to rock the boat. I believe in your ability to stand up and help people.
Also, I am surprised by your straightforwardness. I appreciate that, lol. :)
Yes, because the solution to misogynistic chauvinism is misandronistic chauvinism. Brilliant thinking... That'll alter things for the better.
Everyone (literally) has the potential to act out problematic gender roles, women included.
This sentence is legit incoherent. If a criticism doesn't apply to someone, protecting against said criticism is quite literally preventing discrimination.
Or maybe we can criticize unfair collective suspicion in the same way summary judgments based on other categories are crticizised. I really can't see how this argument does not lead to racism, sexism, etc. Being a man is not being part of a club, you don't decide to join, you don't subscribe to any value, you don't have a steering committee that decides how "manhood" is by vote. Why tf anybody should be responsible to change a group that they are part of simply for biological reasons?
Screenshotting this for the next time some dipshit tries to tell me people don't say shit like this
Post the screenshot
I'm fine with the collective suspicion, since I know that (a) the suspicions are misplaced for me personally, and this will be obvious to anyone spending any time around me, and (b) because this is a dominant attitude only among women who are chronically online, who I wouldn't want to spend time with anyway.
So, sorry, your shame-blackmail won't work on me. If you are going to other me, putting me on the other "side", then please provide a reason for helping you that will benefit me personally. After all, why would I want to help someone who sees me as an enemy?
A random sub-reddit doesn't represent any significant portion of "men," as a class.
You’re right but the problem lies in not even being able to have this conversation online without the mobbing
They are not right, they are sexist as fuck
If all men are responsible for the shitty men because we have the capacity to be that way - then all women are responsible for the shitty things women do and they owe me an apology and better treatment before they'll get anything from me
You have the right to say sexist shit. And we have the right to call you out for it.
Look, you want to vent because there are problematic men, go ahead. You have to complain because there are aspects of male culture that enable such men, go ahead.
But the moment you attack a whole group for the actions of a few, just because of physical similarities you are no better than a racist and I will call you for it.
That’s not how racism works. The group in power at the top of the hedgemony that subjugates other groups doesn’t get to claim victim status when they’re asked to self reflect.
Yes, because "men" is such a stringent definition for a hedgemonic class. Half the population on earth, across different social statuses, nationalities, wealth, race, age, and so on. Honestly, claiming this is the "group in power" is absurd.
A completely poor analysis, what there is to reflect on?
No. Racism is prejudice on the basis of race. Being part of a group that is generally a target doesn't excuse your own behavior and give a blank card for your own prejudices.
We are ALL grown-ups. Act like it. Asking someone to be aware of their own privilege is not the same as telling someone they're inherently guilty to the genitals or skin color they were born with, regardless of their own actions. That is NOT "being asked to self-reflect" as you put it. That is simply prejudice and you will be called out on it. The same way I will call-out a cat-calling man, a man-hating woman or a raging racist, because to me you are all the same.