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Welcome again to everybody. Make yourselves at home. In the time-honoured tradition of our group, here is the weekly discussion thread.
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The actions of the US over the last few years have been so blatant, both in rhetoric and execution, that I thought for sure this would be a radicalising moment for the majority of people to realise that the country, or at least it's ruling class, is inherently malicious and dangerous.
Unfortunately this isn't the case, US propaganda is so effective that most people in the West who do have negative opinions of their country's actions, simply chalk it all up to Donald Trump. Is that really the best they can do? Turbo Trump derangement syndrome instead of some genuine awareness? Fuck these people just as much as those who enthusiastically support the imperialism, their ignorance and lack of investigation is yet another pillar on which the Empire can stand.
The average American has far more amenities than the average European, and the latter is already an extremely wealthy and privileged population compared to the rest of the world. Many Americans don’t want to realize that but it’s true.
People will change into the direction you want once their material conditions are in the right place for that to happen- And you need to be there to show them the right way forward.
Ehhhhhhhhh
I am in Europe and the average European clearly lives better than the average American in every metric possible.
I lived in a very noisy Latino/a neighborhood in Virginia.
It was terrible.
No walkability.
No basic services (or they were so obscure or obtuse and not readily available that people didn't know about them).
Racism, sexism, transphobia, etc.
Nobody knew their neighbor or recognized anyone.
Just... insufferable.
Everybody was pissed off or mentally ill (I hate the term "mentally ill," but they were very depressed and had a lot of, I would argue, "psychological damage," never mind the trauma, which I would argue is somewhat separate).
I am in Spain, which is technically better than most European countries, but of course, has multiple problems, true enough.
But truth be told: I cannot fathom Virginia or even the wider United States being better than Spain by any metric whatsoever.
Idk. Maybe a mental block for me at this point.
To be fair, a good Greek comrade once told me that "Greece is America in 5 years."
I do get the sense that Europe is headed that way.
But honestly, for the time being, in most places, it seemed better than the United States, imho
Settlers talks a bit about this. It's why I've given a chuckle when the people on here are like "Just go out and talk to people!" when most Americans don't give a shit about politics or economy; at least not enough to actually get up and do anything about it or actually want to see you dead for even suggesting the idea that their distant family relative who's the only successful one in the family has to change his ways. God forbid.
One of the reasons I ended up moving out of the last state I was in was because I "talked to people" and ended up getting some pretty actionable threats while I was there. These days, I care about my partner and those whom the threats were directed at as it is an "interracial marriage". How am I supposed to have compassion for a genocidal, imperialist country built quite literally on the bones of entire civilizations or for the people in it that love it so much? Now the same things are beginning to repeat here as I participate in my local IWW branch.
I still encourage people to go out and talk to Americans. I just don't think there is gonna be any of that rosy, working-class rabble-rousing that most people on the board seemingly have at least once a year. The experience I got was reaching through a few people who are lower-class, working proles who have absolutely no power or will/freedom to actually participate in organizing. The rest are frothing fascists; most don't even realize they are.
I've been more successful in "recruiting" and organizing from different countries than I ever had with Americans; and I live in America.
Tried to talk to the statesian partner of one of my friends (she called herself a leftist). Said I had something for her to read and immediately got shot down when she told me no matter how short it wqs she wasn't gonna read it cause she just doesn't read. Gave up.
For the record they're both mildly well intentioned libs. (Very mildly, they are so fucking apolitical it makes me mad).
A lot of the people on here seem to have more experience and deal with liberals and left-leaning folk far more. In my case, I tend to try to recruit from the apolitical "right" that has been in there sphere of influence for right-wing politics from family or friends. Best way I can describe it is people who have grown up in that propaganda their entire life and are just starting to question it.
Otherwise, I have had far more receptive people from Eastern Europe and Turkey for example than any "fellow" Americans.
These things don't happen all at once, or all organically. The conditions make it easier to get through to people on a point like this, but they will still benefit greatly from guiding voices. The media apparatus is practiced at redirecting people's ire in various wrong directions, so part of our task is getting past that to make sure people are not being led astray.
The other thing to keep in perspective is that "the majority" is a lot of people. It would be unreasonable to expect that outcome in any country, while the various state apparatuses and inertia are in place. What is most needed as a foundation is people who can build an alternative. It's not as though western countries are going to pass a threshold of disliking the government and then automatically press the revolution button. Probably what would happen if the majority saw it as fundamentally awful, is the exploiting classes would sell them on the idea of reformists in office and some people would fold on their views if/when they see the system reforming at all.
Point being, popularity/unpopularity only goes so far. Organizing and tactics are what turn potential into substantial change.
I think it makes a lot more sense when considering that they are just labour aristocrats justifying themselves. But it is still a opportunity to help people recognize reality I think
You are in the belly of the beast as it is filling up with poison but it just wont vomit.
Agitprop is a material condition. Your voice can be a quantitative change that pushes the qualitative change. I believe in you.
No, no I am not. It is not my responsibiilty to get US libs to gain class consciousness. My priorities are to myself, my community, and at the very most my own country's politics. All I can do is say what I see when it comes to the US, to make a change happen is primarily on the shoulders of socialists and communists in the US, however many there are. I can't go organizing on the ground in the US, only they can, and they have my respect, but sadly, not my confidence.