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Good. Fuck the russians. My grandparents always said "ryssä on ryssä vaikka voissa paistais." Which means "a russian is a russian even if you fry them in butter." They never forgot what the soviets did to our country.
My own grandmother said the same and I understand why she said that, but in the end it's just essentialist bs and xenophobia which we would be better off without in this day and age. Putin and his cronies are the only ones who will thank anyone who tries to keep his political enemies out of his reach.
I have a couple Russian friends. They're good people, hard working, ethical, considerate. Just like I have a few American friends who are good.
YES, there are shitty Russians, and shitty Americans. Hell, there are even shitty Canadians. But hating an entire country because of their government is just bigotry.
Judge people by their actions, not their government.
The government alone does not explain everything. There are deep-running cultural differences between Russia and for example Finland. It's not like Russia would magically change if the government was replaced. Most likely it would eventually go back to being the country it currently is.
Just like the cultural issues in US won't be fixed by replacing the president.
I guess it's the same for every country.
Fins are some of the best people on the planet. Russians are some of the worst. The arithmetic isn't difficult.
Woo I love sweeping generalizations based on who knows what? Like actually, what are you basing that on? Is it the "happiest country on earth" bs? Or the nordic wellfare utopia bs?
I'll let you in on a secret: You can't quantify happiness, those studies are bullshit because everybody has a different standard for what happiness even is.
Another newsflash: Our corrupt government is working overtime to wreck and privatize what remains of our wellfare state and they're cracking down on labor unions. Four currently serving ministers have talked about "the great replacement" on social media. A fifth minister resigned earlier due to ties to actual neonazis being exposed. Our finance minister / vice PM is one of the aforementioned four, and she has in the past written about how she wishes to kill immigrants. These people were all elected by finnish voters, which isn't all that surprising considering how much racists and other dipshits we have here.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/16250.jpeg
I don't know many russians but the two I've gotten to know are nice people. Every country has shitty people in it and every country also has nice people in it.
Yeah, right wing governments funded and supported by Russia do tend to make things worse in democracies all over Europe constantly. What's your point? Fins are some of the best people on the planet, Russians are some of the worst. I have met plenty of both, and I vehemently stand by it.
Here's the stats by the way. You are acquainted with statistical prodecures for measuring general sentiment and quality of life right? If you claim some weak ass first year philosophy bullshit about "it's up for debate ¯\(ツ)/¯" then you don't have the faintest grasp on this conversation.
https://data.worldhappiness.report/table
It's quite well documented that the austerity politics of Kokoomus (the current PM party) didn't come from Russia, but the Confederation of Finnish Industries, which is the big employers union in the country, run by these "some of the best people on the planet" that you keep talking about. These same people are to blame for that graph I posted earlier that you didn't even address.
I'm quite familiar with the numbers and how they are calculated. It's headline news every year here. I suspect that it contributes to our scores as well. "Well I live in the happiest country in the world and everybody told me as a kid that it's like winning the lottery to be born in Finland [a phrase from the 70's uttered by boomers every now and then], so I guess things are pretty good for me.".
From that website you linked:
It's completely subjective. There's no way for it to not be completely subjective. The local culture dominates what expectations people set for what's at the top of the ladder and what's at the bottom. A frog in a well will say "Eh, I guess I'm doing pretty good" and that's as accurate a result as can be obtained. I don't say that the numbers themselves are up for debate. The studies aren't bad, it's just that their importance is inflated way past proportion. At best it's a cultural curiosity.
Edit: Oh yeah and I laughed when I saw the "Perceptions of corruption" part. We have plenty of corruption here. it's just less overt and instead takes the form of old boy networks, small circles and informal favors.
You're missing the point! We need these good citizens to help at the least start asking the question of what is happening and why. Yes, there two sides to every story and Russians constantly get presented with a different narrative that what we get in Europe and the Americas. Yes, there could be repercussions for raising certain domestically related questions in Russia. However, this is not a reason to not raise those questions like "Why is all our tourist visas cancelled in the Baltics!? Are we really doing something that could justify this?" This initiative is great for that reason. Heads up for the Overton Window. We must not accept a new normal where waging war on other countries is not a an unacceptable crime that needs the hardest imaginable punishment.
I'm sorry but you are very naive.
Straw man
I wasn't suggesting the visa bans weren't justified. I was just responding to bigotry in the post I responded to. Hating all Russians just because they live under a sadistic tyrant is no different than hating all Americans for the same reason.
Amen! It's crazy and dangerous times we live in where there's no accountability, and no responsibility taken for anything the world leaders do. Putin kind of set the precedence in recent times by just openly invading another country. And Trump has more than caught up openly supporting Putin and Netanyahu. Xi is also doing his best, and these days there's no political consensus to pressure China to not invade Taiwan. There would basically be no repercussions before it's too late and the damage done.
Bro if you get attacked by Canada you deny entry to Canadians. What's not to get?
YEAH! Fuck everyone! Fuck every person born in a wrong place! Or in a wrong family! Or with a "wrong" sexuality/gender/race!
Based at the start, fuck everyone who blindly serves their authoritarian government
And you feel good inheriting that hatred? There's a big difference between the general Russian population (those who will be affected by this ban) and Kremlin.
Let's be better than our ancestors.
Do you know the kind of generational trauma caused by rape, torture, dispossession and murder? Because that's what I've inherited, and yes, as a result I don't want anything to do with any russians.
Was it the kremlin who raped, tortured and murdered in Bucha, Irpin, Mariupol and other places in their current war? Or was it "normal" russians?
And where does this cycle of hatred end? Do you think the "normal" Russians (soldiers, prisoners, mercenaries) would do these things, like rape, if they didn't believe either that you deserved it, or that you are not worthy of compassion? Where does this come from, you think?
And how does this translate to tourists? Do they share this perspective? Why do they travel to countries which they know support "the enemy"?
It ends when they fuck off out of the country they invaded. Until then it's open season.
Say your government invades Greenland, and I see you in my country after that, would sending you back to your country and banning you from returning make you stand up to your government? Or are you going to be like "they can hate all they want: they are wrong."?
Edit:
Actually, if you would stand up to your government, what would you do? And don't give me some "guns blazing" shit - we both know risking your life like that is both very ineffective and something you'd never do.
Let's see. Maybe we could start with the russians not invading other countries and brutalizing their people? Or is your point that it's us on the receiving end who are supposed to magically not hate the invaders?
I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry, nor that they shouldn't face repercussions for what has been done, but here we're talking about banning tourists, i.e. people who travel out of Russia and presents a golden opportunity for two things: Perspective shift and escape. Does it help further the goal of our sanctions by saying "I hate you so I don't want you around"? What that's effectively going to do is deny them yet another avenue of perspective, and they will remain in a country full of propaganda reenforcing beliefs that their country and people are doing a fair thing.
And besides, it's not like they aren't facing prejudice in the aforementioned countries, and that they'll have a nice time. Russian speakers are not liked over here, let me assure you.
And let me be very clear: Russian soldiers raping moms and stealing their kids is not what I'm saying you shouldn't hate. They deserve every gram of hatred. But like it or not, we're not able to directly impose consequences nor deterrents onto the perpetrators from our position, unless we want to go in by force (that means war). So our next best thing is consequences to those who may influence them in one way or another, i.e. the general population. But is hating them a consequence? They don't see that hatred if all they see are the walls inside their country.
The general population are still to be held responsible for what they directly or indirectly support, even by just being of the same nation. But is preventing tourism something that will make them think "this is my government's fault"? That's the question, and your (and many other people's) hatred is making you blind.
TIL Lemmy doesn't actually mind xenophobia as long as it's against Russians.
Would someone PLEASE think of the Russians?!
Of course. They live in a shithole. It's not their fault where they were born.
Seconded! Whole family for generations suffered under the fucking Russians. And here they come again, like the fucking mongol horde without the charm.
You turn the other cheek while I reload my AK, then everybody wins.
This is just overt racism.
Poland and Ukraine also never forgets. And Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia, and
Jim Gaffigan said "I've been all over the world, and I've learned that there are only two types of people: Good people...and Russians."