Europe
News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
- Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Posts that link to the following sources will be removed
- on any topic: Al Mayadeen, brusselssignal:eu, citjourno:com, europesays:com, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Fox, GB News, geo-trends:eu, news-pravda:com, OAN, RT, sociable:co, any AI slop sites (when in doubt please look for a credible imprint/about page), change:org (for privacy reasons), archive:is,ph,today (their JS DDoS websites)
- on Middle-East topics: Al Jazeera
- on Hungary: Euronews
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
Ban lengths, etc.
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the admin that applied the rule (check modlog first to find who was it.)
view the rest of the comments
I don’t get why people are saying there should be a punishment.
The EU is saying that participation is voluntary, but making the idea that leaving for a bit, just to realise it was wrong, and then to be punished for it to rejoin, feels less voluntary and more you better do what we say or there will be consequences. The idea that it is to deter other countries that aren’t fully in is stupid too. Why not just let them leave and then realise it’s wrong when it happens and come back?
Like if a family member that I know and love hurts me and leaves, I’d eventually welcome them back and let bygones be bygones, because we are a team. But if it’s some coworker I don’t care about, I’d want to be made right for the troubles.
If the idea of the EU is to be a coalition of allies, why are people thinking of punishing bad behaviour as opposed to rewarding learning and improving behaviour?
I may seem bias because I am from the UK, but I have always been a remainer and I would feel the same if France or Spain or whatever left instead, or if they do in the future.
It’s good to let the leavers feel a taste of how bad it is to do it, but joining should always be a good thing and not a punishment.
Nobody outside UK cares about the colour of the passport, the Sterling or their non-metric measurements. As far as I'm concerned they can keep all that garbage.
UK however had some privileges in accepting EU legislation as they saw fit. All the while being a net receiver of EU funding. That just doesn't add up.
This special treatment is exactly what caused Brexit to begin with. UK was never really all in on EU.
If they want to rejoin, they'd better be all in on collaboration with EU, instead of cherry picking as they were before.
Those privileges are not a right granted to members of the EU. They abandonned those privileges when they left.
Joining back should start at the same baseline as any other country negotiating an entry to the EU. If they want their privileges back, the EU should get something for it in exchange, like any decent negociation. The UK is not in the position of strength that made those one-sided privileges possible when they joined.
Being treated exactly like every other country outside the EU is not a punishment. A punishment would be demanding reparations for the damages the UK inflicted with Brexit, which you'll note neither me nor anybody else here I could see asked for.
This is what that looks like: Accept the same terms as anybody else or don't join. There are plenty of ways to have constructive cooperations without the UK joining the EU.
"We" are not a family. The EU is a confederation. If we were a family, I would require both contrition and some form of reparations, because breaking such a much closer bond has more severe consequences.
If the UK thinks joining on the same terms as anybody else is a punishment they are free to not join. We have way too many grandfathered-in friction-causing privileges already.
Not getting old privileges back is not punishment. It's the logical progression from leaving a community where you had special privileges grandfathered in and then joining when new members don't get those privileges anymore. The UK doesn't get punished, it gets the same deal as everyone else.