Regardless, I think as much hate as ACT gets for this - it seems obvious that clarity on the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi is required so that every New Zealander knows where they stand (legally speaking) and we can move on as a country.

The different interpretations from different groups are distracting from the real issues because the solution gets muddied.

Should we establish group-specific organisations that all do the same thing, just for different segments of society - or should we pour our energy and resources into making organisations work for all New Zealanders?

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[–] Xcf456@lemmy.nz 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Look up the Māori King movement, it's the same idea.

Regardless, I think as much hate as ACT gets for this - it seems obvious that clarity on the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi is required so that every New Zealander knows where they stand (legally speaking) and we can move on as a country.

What does this even mean? You can't just 'move on as a country' if one side tries to unilaterally rewrite their obligations to an agreement. That is what ACT is trying to do, the so-called party of property rights.

[–] lightnegative@lemmy.world -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well, we have one group of people saying "the treaty means this". And we have another group of people saying "no, the treaty means this".

Which group is right? Currently it's impossible to tell, because they've interpreted parts of the treaty in different ways. And there is some precedent in case law thanks to Waitangi tribunal rulings.

Clarifying the principles removes the ambiguity and makes it clear for everyone.

I understand the opposition though, Maori stand to lose a bunch of Maori-specific things they fought long and hard for if it's decided that actually all citizens of New Zealand have the same rights and duties under NZ law

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 1 points 11 months ago

It is not really impossible, and there is clear international precedent for how to deal with these kinds of situations.

Contra proferentem (Latin: "against [the] offeror"),[1] also known as "interpretation against the draftsman", is a doctrine of contractual interpretation providing that, where a promise, agreement or term is ambiguous, the preferred meaning should be the one that works against the interests of the party who provided the wording.[2]

This is the legal equivalent of "you cut, I choose".

The fact there are two versions of the treaty, and they are not equivalent, and the crown provided the wording on both (since at the time there was no written Maori language), contract law would side with the Maori on any ambiguous points.

The challenge is determining what is ambiguous, what can be done with the discovered ambiguities. Obviously the two treaties are not wholly different and both languages have evolved since the treaties were drafted. Te Reo is a modern language, it is (from my understanding) an amalgam of various versions of the Maori languages (see Whanganui vs Wanganui) that were spoken by the separate tribes, they were all very similar but with regional differences.