this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2025
723 points (94.7% liked)

World News

50459 readers
2121 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I acknowledged that when I said “If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.”.

Like I told you, it's Israel that "mows the grass" to make sure no moderate gets ahead. Bargouti is in an Israeli jail.

“what will lead to an enduring peace is actually more important than what is just.”

But that's the point: if it is not just, it will not be enduring. I don't understand what is confusing about "no justice no peace". Justice by the way does not mean that Palestinians get everything. It means that they get enough to feel that they have gotten a deal they can live with. Ireland is a fantastic example here actually. The Irish didn't get a united Ireland in the early 20th century, but they got an independent country. And in the next chapter of struggle, the republicans and the unionists again didn't get everything, but they got enough to get to a place they can live with. But Britain had to fucking let go in both cases. The Israelis have to fucking let go and they have to come to terms with what they've done and realize that they will have to pay some kind of reparation at the very least.

[–] glorkon@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

But that’s the point: if it is not just, it will not be enduring. I don’t understand what is confusing about “no justice no peace”.

Nothing about it is confusing, it is very clear. And it is an absolute position that will make this conflict go on forever. Why? Because in an asymmetric conflict like this, there will always be injustice.

You have to find a way to end this injustice with peaceful means. I refuse to accept that only violence can solve this. That's all I am saying.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

What absolute position? I wrote a whole paragraph after the bit that you quote exactly on why it is not an absolute position.

Justice by the way does not mean that Palestinians get everything. It means that they get enough to feel that they have gotten a deal they can live with. Ireland is a fantastic example here actually. The Irish didn’t get a united Ireland in the early 20th century, but they got an independent country. And in the next chapter of struggle, the republicans and the unionists again didn’t get everything, but they got enough to get to a place they can live with. But Britain had to fucking let go in both cases. The Israelis have to fucking let go and they have to come to terms with what they’ve done and realize that they will have to pay some kind of reparation at the very least.

[–] glorkon@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

What absolute position? I wrote a whole paragraph after the bit that you quote exactly on why it is not an absolute position.

Okay, I admit I didn't pay enough attention to what you wrote. Probably because I don't like being lectured about history.

But in that case, even better! They tried working on a two-state solution. It was shot down, but you gotta try again. And again. And again.

Everything Israel and the Palestinians are doing at the moment is the exact opposite. They create more violence, hatred, death, destruction and desire for vengeance, which in turn will be the fuel for more decades of war.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca -1 points 12 hours ago

Stop both sides-ing for goodness sake! There are no two equal sides here. There are the perpetrators and the victims of a genocide, of apartheid, and of occupation.

Not to mention that you are literally factually wrong. Hamas controls Gaza but the PA controls the West Bank. There is nothing the PA does that "creates violence, hatred, destruction and desire for vengeance" among Israelis. So to be extremely clear YOUR FRAMING IS FACTUALLY WRONG. The PA has recognized Israel, supports the two state solution. The PA is so actively trying to supress radicals that if you look around this thread you will see people accusing it of being collaborationists. And what do they get in response? Colonization, occupation, apartheid, and pogroms. If Israel achieves its war goals and eliminates Hamas from Gaza, the result will be that that insufferable misery also extended there. The Palestinians are literally given a choice of genocide or apartheid, of a quick fiery death or a slow bleeding death. This is Israel's policy and it isn't just Bibi, it is the Israeli state policy of the last 30 fucking years.