Honestly deradicalizing and demilitarizing Israel WOULD deradicalize Palestine.
Israel put Hamas in power. Israel literally helped Iran deliver funding and weapons to Hamas for decades.
this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2025
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I think you hit the nail on the head exactly. That's it, the whole affair in one line.
So here's a comment which will probably be downvoted to hell, but I can deal with that.
I'm almost 50 years old. Israel and Palestine (plus other surrounding countries) have never been at peace as long as I can think.
There's always some asshole who thinks fighting a war is the better option. If an Israeli prime minister wants to make peace, they fucking shoot him. If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.
In the meantime, there are at least some people on both sides who wish for nothing more than peace. Yes, we can debate on which side has more of them and it's damn certain there aren't enough of them by far.
But can we maybe just stop taking a side? This conflict is not about Israel or Palestine having to be deradicalized, OP, it's about the all the warmongers and religious fundamentalists and radicals on both sides who need to be deradicalized.
There will never be an end to this as long as I live if we continue to blame either Israel or the Palestinians. Both is wrong, both of them haven't done nearly enough to stop this insanity.
(But yeah, I totally agree, the current right wing Israeli government is a hopeless case if you want peace.)
This war is about land and imperialist control over the middle east, not religion.
Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas.
The victims of genocide, apartheid, occupation do not have the same level of culpability as the perpetrators. And it's not the current right wing government that's to blame, sorry. It is the whole edifice that the Israelis have built of occupation, apartheid, and now genocide.
You want a moderate palestinian leader? He exists. His name is Marwan Barghouti. And it's not Hamas that has "done their own thing". He's in an Israeli jail, with that worm Ben Gvir torturing him.
And if 50 years seems like a long time to you, and that they should just grow up and accept the fait accompli of the occupation and the defeat, well sorry but that says more about you. I know nothing about you but I wouldn't be surprised if you come from a cultural background that doesn't have a history of resistance and struggle for freedom. My Greek ancestors were occupied for 400 years. The Irish for 800. Warmongering? Wars for freedom are just wars. Peace is not the absence of war, it is the presence of justice. No justice? No peace. As simple as that.
So yea, I'm going to take a side.
Hear hear, well said, as a 52 year old, (albeit I'm Lebanese and had my fair share of Israeli wars), it's been obvious from day 1 Israel has long been practicing blatant apartheid policies in the Gaza strip, and providing IOF support to terrorist settler pogroms in the west bank. The vile entity that is the Israeli government today needs to be torn down and rebuilt to allow for a viable Palestinian state.
I too am taking a side and fuck Israel and the IOF.
Edit: Formatting
Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas.
I acknowledged that when I said "If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.".
The victims of genocide, apartheid, occupation do not have the same level of culpability as the perpetrators.
No, they don't. There are many blameless Palestinians. And there are Israelis who voted for the current government, they surely carry more guilt in this war than Palestinian victims.
that they should just grow up and accept the fait accompli of the occupation and the defeat, well sorry but that says more about you
Firstly, I never said they have to accept it. If you think war is the only means of not accepting and trying to change it, it says a lot about you. Secondly, someone else in this comment section said: "what will lead to an enduring peace is actually more important than what is just."
No justice? No peace. As simple as that.
This is why this will never end.
I acknowledged that when I said “If a Palestinian leader becomes too moderate, Hamas will do their own thing.”.
Like I told you, it's Israel that "mows the grass" to make sure no moderate gets ahead. Bargouti is in an Israeli jail.
“what will lead to an enduring peace is actually more important than what is just.”
But that's the point: if it is not just, it will not be enduring. I don't understand what is confusing about "no justice no peace". Justice by the way does not mean that Palestinians get everything. It means that they get enough to feel that they have gotten a deal they can live with. Ireland is a fantastic example here actually. The Irish didn't get a united Ireland in the early 20th century, but they got an independent country. And in the next chapter of struggle, the republicans and the unionists again didn't get everything, but they got enough to get to a place they can live with. But Britain had to fucking let go in both cases. The Israelis have to fucking let go and they have to come to terms with what they've done and realize that they will have to pay some kind of reparation at the very least.
But that’s the point: if it is not just, it will not be enduring. I don’t understand what is confusing about “no justice no peace”.
Nothing about it is confusing, it is very clear. And it is an absolute position that will make this conflict go on forever. Why? Because in an asymmetric conflict like this, there will always be injustice.
You have to find a way to end this injustice with peaceful means. I refuse to accept that only violence can solve this. That's all I am saying.
What absolute position? I wrote a whole paragraph after the bit that you quote exactly on why it is not an absolute position.
Justice by the way does not mean that Palestinians get everything. It means that they get enough to feel that they have gotten a deal they can live with. Ireland is a fantastic example here actually. The Irish didn’t get a united Ireland in the early 20th century, but they got an independent country. And in the next chapter of struggle, the republicans and the unionists again didn’t get everything, but they got enough to get to a place they can live with. But Britain had to fucking let go in both cases. The Israelis have to fucking let go and they have to come to terms with what they’ve done and realize that they will have to pay some kind of reparation at the very least.
What absolute position? I wrote a whole paragraph after the bit that you quote exactly on why it is not an absolute position.
Okay, I admit I didn't pay enough attention to what you wrote. Probably because I don't like being lectured about history.
But in that case, even better! They tried working on a two-state solution. It was shot down, but you gotta try again. And again. And again.
Everything Israel and the Palestinians are doing at the moment is the exact opposite. They create more violence, hatred, death, destruction and desire for vengeance, which in turn will be the fuel for more decades of war.
Stop both sides-ing for goodness sake! There are no two equal sides here. There are the perpetrators and the victims of a genocide, of apartheid, and of occupation.
Not to mention that you are literally factually wrong. Hamas controls Gaza but the PA controls the West Bank. There is nothing the PA does that "creates violence, hatred, destruction and desire for vengeance" among Israelis. So to be extremely clear YOUR FRAMING IS FACTUALLY WRONG. The PA has recognized Israel, supports the two state solution. The PA is so actively trying to supress radicals that if you look around this thread you will see people accusing it of being collaborationists. And what do they get in response? Colonization, occupation, apartheid, and pogroms. If Israel achieves its war goals and eliminates Hamas from Gaza, the result will be that that insufferable misery also extended there. The Palestinians are literally given a choice of genocide or apartheid, of a quick fiery death or a slow bleeding death. This is Israel's policy and it isn't just Bibi, it is the Israeli state policy of the last 30 fucking years.
No justice? No peace. As simple as that.
And here's another thought on this: It seems as if quite a lot of arab people (not only the Palestinians) view the mere existence of Israel as an injustice.
Logical conclusion? Obvious...
The existence of Israel in the way it exists now is an injustice.
I know nothing about you but I wouldn’t be surprised if you come from a cultural background that doesn’t have a history of resistance and struggle for freedom.
Is this some kind of attempt to dispute my right to an opinion? Or an attempt to devalue it? I know nothing about you, but come on. I'm sure you can find better arguments for your positions than thinly veiled ad hominems.
No, it is an attempt (maybe ham fisted, in which case I apologize) to make you reflect on whether you have the cultural middleware to really understand that 50 years of occupation is not "forever", that longer timelines have existed. It's a call to examine your assumptions.
It’s a call to examine your assumptions.
Nope, it translated to me to "you don't come from a background of resistance in your country, your opinions automatically don't matter as much."
"maybe ham fisted, in which case I apologize"
So now that the misunderstanding is cleared, I call you again to examine your assumptions and blind spots.
But can we maybe just stop taking a side? This conflict is not about Israel or Palestine having to be deradicalized, OP, it's about the all the warmongers and religious fundamentalists and radicals on both sides who need to be deradicalized.
Partially incorrect, since the vast majority of Israelis clearly support the actions of their current government and army. Now, this could be due to mass propaganda inside Israel. Quite possible, but the numbers are still way too high. The level of support is higher than it was in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, where as we now know, propaganda was constant and ubiquitous.
Moreover, it's one of very few countries on the planet that have never had a significant peaceful period in their history. Pretty much since its establishment in 1948, Israel has been slaughtering people. Admittedly, not all of it is their fault. I don't blame them for getting invaded literal hours after declaring independence. However, Europe has experienced this in the past as well, and yet, it managed to forge peace lasting longer than its conflicts.
This, and more, points me to a suggestion that Israel does in fact need to be deradicalized. How we'd go about it, if confirmed to be the case, is an entirely different matter.
You might be surprised that back until around the end of the 80's, a Palestinian from Gaza could just drive to Tel Aviv to have a coffee with his jewish Israeli friends.
Partially incorrect, since the vast majority of Israelis clearly support the actions of their current government and army.
I actually agree with this and nothing I said is in contradiction with this fact. There are still some Israelis, albeit far too few, who want peace.
I think Israel is carrying out a genocide and even so my question is: Why not both? Whose responsibility is it, and why uniquely on Israel/Palestine?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY
I'm not naive enough to think this is possible, I'd just be happy if world powers and neighboring countries at least stopped feeding the conflict. Oh, look at me, and I just said I wasn't into naive hopes.
The video is stupid because Palestinian DNA traces back to the Canaanites whereas Israelis are from Poland.
Sure, one side has 95% of the world's wealth behind it and the support of the strongest military in history, but yeah both sides are equally responsible and have equal impact on whether the genocide continues...
The most certain way to deradicalize the Palestinians is simply to deradicalize and demilitarize the Israeli state and to dismantle its apartheid and occupation edifice.
Religion is social cancer
Israel is an Atheist project
Israel? The nation that "secretly" detonated a nuclear bomb without any repercussions after the ban?
Israel? The nation that has a plan to nuke as many people as possible if their "promised land" is threatened?
No, not that Israel. There's no way.
"82% of Israelis want to expel Palestinians from Gaza; 47% want to kill every man, woman, child in Gaza"
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2025/05/30/poll-israelis-expel-palestinians-gaza-genocide/
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You can already see the hallmark signs of a state funded media campaign to undermine any and all claims that the ceasefire has been broken and continues to be so.
They’re using the fact that people are tired of seeing and reading about horrible things knowing they have no control over it. As a result, the public are now personally invested (mental wellbeing) into the ceasefire being real. Even if the bombing campaign and conditions are nearly identical to pre-“ceasefire” levels, the general public is exhausted and takes the (still propagandized) media’s coverage as truth.
They are not wrong that Israel is radicalised. However, peace is a process, and what will lead to an enduring peace is actually more important than what is just.
If Israel was actually willing to reconcile and treat Palestinians as equals, the South African model of truth & reconciliation (including amnesty for abuses in exchange for full disclosure of what happened), it wouldn't be just for the victims, but it would allow both sides to move on peacefully.
The real problem is that Netanyahu, Smoltrich, Ben Gvir etc... don't actually want peace, so even a neutral truth & reconciliation is currently unlikely to happen without their backers (especially the US) forcing them.
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