this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2025
49 points (100.0% liked)

GenZedong

4962 readers
43 users here now

This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.

See this GitHub page for a collection of sources about socialism, imperialism, and other relevant topics.

This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.

We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Welcome again to everybody. Make yourself at home. In the time-honoured tradition of our group, here is the weekly discussion thread.

Matrix homeserver and space
Theory discussion group on /c/theory@lemmygrad.ml
Find theory on ProleWiki, marxists.org, Anna's Archive, libgen

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] mao_dun@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm of the opinion (echoing analysis I've seen recently but can't remember who said it, sorry) that a veto in this particular case is actually worse than abstaining because

  1. playing field for diplomacy is and must be states as the entities - if you go with smaller factions organized in forms that aren't recognizable as such to an international body, we get into shit and muddied fields such as enemies making deals diplomacy etc with separatist groups. Palestinian resistance groups are many and not exactly cohesive as acting as one state-resembling unit and while the 2024 Beijing Declaration had got many of them together, right now most of the international body still sees the Palestinian Authority, which we know are collaborationist with the Zionist entity, as the defacto representative of Palestine. Sticking with the principle of doing diplomacy with states as the actor-entities, aligns with China's steadfast and consistent call for the Two-State solution. This is a thing that has been unpopular since Day 0 with the pro-Palestine crowd in the western left (who I think see the word "solution" and think that would be the end of it and that Palestine would mire in perpetual genocidal relation with its neighbor like Armenia-Azerbaijan, rather than statehood being a very powerful tool!), something I think is quite relevant to this whole shebang. All that as a preface to say, the responsibility and burden to free Palestine should ALSO rest with their neighbors, their cultural brethren-Arab nations. It would be paternalistic/patronizing and against the spirit of respecting other nations' sovereignty (foundational to anti-imperialism) - which would include what happens in ones' neighborhood - to VETO when other Arab states in MENA have voted FOR this plan - HI ALGERIA!!! If more MENA states would have shown up for AGAINST then China and Russia would have more reason to back that consensus and VETO. And in everything but especially in the arena of diplomacy, China (and Russia) cannot simply decide they represent the will of anyone other than themselves including MENA, including Arab nations, including Palestinians. IDK maybe I'm stupid but I think principles with very good reasons should be upheld AND it's not a betrayal because literally the UN/UNSC isn't the only playing field omg because...
  2. ...obviously China and Russia have more material and meaningful ways to support Palestine outside of the UN/UNSC
  3. even if the proposal clearly penned by the US that 'passed' is vague and only reports infrequently (iirc it calls for yearly stats reported to the UN/UNSC/appropriate division i think its just called BoP), that's still better than them going ahead with their nefarious plans completely behind closed doors in the dark.
[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I agree with this analysis and I think your point about the main subjects of international diplomacy being state entities is very important, as is the point about Russia and China not being in a position to be "more Catholic than the Pope" as the saying goes, i.e. in this case they cannot come off as believing that they know better what is good for the Palestinians than the PA and the Arab countries of the region. That would be seen as very paternalistic and disrespectful.

China in particular has carefully cultivated a non-interventionist image, and made a point to emphasize the importance of respecting national sovereignty and not imposing from outside onto the people who are native to the region.