this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2025
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[–] mao_dun@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (18 children)

I've been too busy to engage that much in social media these days. I've mentioned it offhand before but usually my main haunt is tumblr and I've made many "mutuals" (friends, I suppose) with communists(many whose stripes arent super apparent, but I thought I've been good at filtering out hohxaists trots and generally leftcoms) and leftists (mainly the anti-imperialist sort, avoid the anarchists and anticivs, naturally) - most of them lgbt - from both imperial core and periphery.

Anyways I've been relatively inactive(by my metrics) over there for about a month but had some more time than usual yesterday and, well, I shouldn't be so so surprised but turns out a lot of my mutuals (and I've very selective about who I decide to follow) who I thought were more ML really showing their leftcom colors in regards to the recent UNSC vote regarding Palestine. I've even got one calling anyone who "defends" China anything from "Chinese nationalists(bad)" to "traitors to internationalism" to "actually you're a Zionist"... very disappointed. Emotionally charged idealism over materialism (<- to be fair this is also common in Chinese social media too. maybe these tumblr leftcoms might be surprised that a lot of people they would denounce as "chinese nationalists" are unhappy with how conservative Chinese diplomacy is, and have been very upset about restraint in open direct support to Palestine - though lately of course their attentions have largely been on Japan wanting to (re)annex Taiwan - but I digress)

(Context:~~yes Hamas asked China and Russia for a veto in UNSC.~~ Correction below. China and Russia abstained. But if even Algeria and other Arab states who are actually in the same region would not vote against TRUST then why should China be expected to go against the consensus of the other Arab states in the area? Why should anyone expect China to turn into interventionist-style diplomacy, USA-style but communist?)

IDK, maybe I'm belittling what's happening but, why would anyone care That much about the farce/kayfabe/circus that is the UN/UNSC. Why does that feel like it's SUPER BIG to them and why have they literally forgotten things like the 2024 Beijing Declaration or brokering and re-establishing relations between Saudi and Iran, i dunno, like the Real diplomacy in MENA (which, surprise surprise, should include MENA states involved. emphasis states, unfortunately, that's the playing field). Why do western leftists get all the excuses when we have failed to reduce/eliminate support for the settler colonial project and literal weapon shipments to Israel but when China doesn't show their cards in the circus lions den and none of the other Arab states don't show either, suddenly aww China is a comprador, China is selfish, is imperialist collaborator (bwuh???), BRI is imperialism with chinese characteristics (if China doesnt bleed herself out in order to uplift global south nations then it's not anti-imperialist, or at least, it's not anti-imperialist enough), China is ~ Zionist ~ (lmao????), China is supplying a genocide (supposedly this statement is because China continues to trade with Israel, and has contracts building civilian port infrastructure. but??!? literally what are we doing here, running the NYT Atlantic? applying zionist logic that civilian infrastructure is also military infrastructure and legit war targets? US/West is supplying the weapons and tech. China does not sell or provide Israel with weapons). I can't believe I've seen all these things come out of self-id'd anti-imperialist communists the last two days. That said, it's only a portion of people, plenty of comrades have been reasonable about it.

Anyway, I'm glad to not see that kind of nonsense discourse appear here. Thanks for reading my small rant

edit: nvm lol. everyone's acting like Russia and China voted FOR if they didn't veto (they both abstained). anyway you can actually read what China has said about their reasonings here instead of thinking or saying frankly weird stuff like "china is zionist"

2nd edit/correction: this is on me for not seeking primary sources and just relying on what the naysayers were saying. Palestinian groups did not ask for it to be vetoed specifically, but asked for it to be condemned and an alternative put forth (Russia is doing that/has penned one) and yes Russia and China both abstained and condemned it. Now I'm even more confused why people were so mad. PFLP's statement | I can't find a definitive statement BEFORE the vote was called from Hamas - if anyone has it, please point me to it thanks

[–] 666@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 day ago (14 children)

I agree. I actually didn't know if anyone else was thinking this today. It's not even particularly on tumblr, I've started turning a side-eye towards a lot of sources I have based upon this new rhetoric being wedged into our circle.

[–] Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children)

Even Ali from Electronic Intifada was ranting about how Russia and China "betrayed" Gaza. Like how would vetoing the deal stop the genocide? and you know that behind closed doors usa was saying "if this gets vetoed we will let israel go back to how it was a coupple months ago."

[–] mao_dun@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm of the opinion (echoing analysis I've seen recently but can't remember who said it, sorry) that a veto in this particular case is actually worse than abstaining because

  1. playing field for diplomacy is and must be states as the entities - if you go with smaller factions organized in forms that aren't recognizable as such to an international body, we get into shit and muddied fields such as enemies making deals diplomacy etc with separatist groups. Palestinian resistance groups are many and not exactly cohesive as acting as one state-resembling unit and while the 2024 Beijing Declaration had got many of them together, right now most of the international body still sees the Palestinian Authority, which we know are collaborationist with the Zionist entity, as the defacto representative of Palestine. Sticking with the principle of doing diplomacy with states as the actor-entities, aligns with China's steadfast and consistent call for the Two-State solution. This is a thing that has been unpopular since Day 0 with the pro-Palestine crowd in the western left (who I think see the word "solution" and think that would be the end of it and that Palestine would mire in perpetual genocidal relation with its neighbor like Armenia-Azerbaijan, rather than statehood being a very powerful tool!), something I think is quite relevant to this whole shebang. All that as a preface to say, the responsibility and burden to free Palestine should ALSO rest with their neighbors, their cultural brethren-Arab nations. It would be paternalistic/patronizing and against the spirit of respecting other nations' sovereignty (foundational to anti-imperialism) - which would include what happens in ones' neighborhood - to VETO when other Arab states in MENA have voted FOR this plan - HI ALGERIA!!! If more MENA states would have shown up for AGAINST then China and Russia would have more reason to back that consensus and VETO. And in everything but especially in the arena of diplomacy, China (and Russia) cannot simply decide they represent the will of anyone other than themselves including MENA, including Arab nations, including Palestinians. IDK maybe I'm stupid but I think principles with very good reasons should be upheld AND it's not a betrayal because literally the UN/UNSC isn't the only playing field omg because...
  2. ...obviously China and Russia have more material and meaningful ways to support Palestine outside of the UN/UNSC
  3. even if the proposal clearly penned by the US that 'passed' is vague and only reports infrequently (iirc it calls for yearly stats reported to the UN/UNSC/appropriate division i think its just called BoP), that's still better than them going ahead with their nefarious plans completely behind closed doors in the dark.
[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I agree with this analysis and I think your point about the main subjects of international diplomacy being state entities is very important, as is the point about Russia and China not being in a position to be "more Catholic than the Pope" as the saying goes, i.e. in this case they cannot come off as believing that they know better what is good for the Palestinians than the PA and the Arab countries of the region. That would be seen as very paternalistic and disrespectful.

China in particular has carefully cultivated a non-interventionist image, and made a point to emphasize the importance of respecting national sovereignty and not imposing from outside onto the people who are native to the region.

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