News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
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It's good that this kind of news is being shared sometimes.
Ukraine has the right to defend itself, but it still is a corrupt state and not a democracy. Even since before the invasion, they've banned political organisations and parties and heavily interfered with any anti-corruption efforts.
Ukraine's status as a new democracy and the country's obvious path toward democratic freedom was exactly the major reason why Russia started the invasion of Ukraine in 2014. The Kremlin doesn't want Russians to see that there is an alternative, freer system than Moscow's autocratic government.
[Edit typo.]
Ukraine is still a democracy. There are varying degrees of freedom and stability obviously but the underlying system is there.
European countries have to stop this. Corruption will certainly hamper Ukraine's ability to defend itself, and likely end up with corrupt officials pocketing Europeans aid money.
from what I've read, the issue with corruption is EXACTLY the reason why this law was set in place.
masses of cases against all kinds of politicians, police and the latter, cases that remain open and unresolved for years - that's not really efficient. Plus it seemed the "independent" agency was heavily influenced by russian agents themselves.
However another change/alteration is already being proposed. To me, it looks like an attempt to get rid of these inside jobs and russian influence. A clumsy attempt, but as long as people are able and allowed to protest, are being heard and talked to, we're on a good path for a free democracy. Anything even remotely similar to that would be unthinkable in russia or even hungary...
I can't see your optimism as anything but wholly unfounded. An anti-corruption agency that's not independent cannot do its job, full stop.
A clumsy attempt, but as long as people are able and allowed to protest, are being heard and talked to, we're on a good path for a free democracy.
And how do you think free democracies devolve into authoritarianism if not for corruption?
let's not forget Ukraine is in the middle of a war for its own existence.
We all know russian warfare is not just straight-forward and weapon-based, but uses several vectors. Influencing agencies to dissolve a state that's already "on the edge" from the inside is a very easy way to weaken such a state even further. And from what I've read this "russian influence" on the anti-corruption agency was nothing far-fetched, but a real issue.
But let me flip the question to you: How would YOU solve the issue of an "independent" anti-corruption agency, that's being heavily influenced by russian agents to disable important governmental structures? Give me/us some solutions to that very real and difficult matter.
let's not forget Ukraine is in the middle of a war for its own existence.
Yes, which is exactly why corruption cannot be tolerated. Democratic accountability and efficiency are not mutually exclusive; if anything they're two sides of the same coin. The fact that Ukraine can count on its weapon stockpiles and army divisions to be there when they need them is a direct result of accountability and anti-corruption measures, and we've all seen in Russia what happens when you don't have those things.
Do you have evidence for this massive Russian conspiracy that's making the agencies in question a bane rather than a boon for Ukraine?
Give me/us some solutions to that very real and difficult matter.
More internal oversight through the agencies themselves and external oversight through the legislature. Such power simply cannot be handed over to the executive. Russia will be very happy with this bill. Being a functional democracy with everything that entails is the one advantage Ukraine has other than Western aid; take that away and Ukraine will collapse in three seconds like Afghanistan did.
so - your solution to solve corruption and russian influence is to give more control to these already corrupt bodies?
I highly doubt that would work. But I do agree on what WOULD work: Ask the EU or at least SOME members of the EU to offer support in working against corruption.
Personally, I'd prefer some of these people from scandinavia to look into that matter. They're known to be the most transparent and advanced one's in that regard.
Last year, the Journal of Nonprofit Innovation published an analysis on Russian corruption and how it's spreading a to its neighbours:
As corruption runs rampant within the Russian government, neighboring countries are also recipients of corrupt efforts to destabilize their governments, erode their democracy and jeopardize the support these neighboring countries can give to the security of Europe as a whole [...] There is an increasing need for the international community to take proactive measures to combat the corruption of Russia that creeps into their own lands and support the Russian people in securing a free land of their own [...]
really, do you want to say these anti-anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine are actually spreading from Russia, of all places?
@bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com
FYI, there is a lot of research and evidence of "strategic corruption", meaning that a a government weaponizes corrupt practices as a tenet of its foreign policy, ranging from Germany's far-right politician Petr Bystron who has been accused of receiving money from Russia in return for influence to Russian links to corruption in Moldova (pdf) and Russia’s corruption-themed propaganda war against Ukraine that said, for example:
Russian state-sponsored strategic corruption campaign is almost certainly Ukraine. For the two decades preceding Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, Russia employed a wide variety of corrupt measures to influence Ukrainian politics, including the sale of vast quantities of discounted fossil fuels to bribe pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarchs and create a political class aligned with Kremlin interests [...]
You'll find much more. There is really a lot of evidence.
I don’t want to discount any of those sources and I don’t have much doubt this is happening right now in other places and happened in Ukraine prior to Russia’s invasion. But I doubt there’s anything there that suggests this is what’s happening in Ukraine in this case right now.
Therefore I find it dishonest to bring it up alongside this, it really seems designed to completely dismiss this development.
Nothing here is dishonest, these are reliable sources strongly related to the issue.
Is Russia in any way involved in this bill?
This question is dishonest to use your word, because no one know this. But there is ample evidence of Russia's (often successful) attempts to interfere and exert influence over others countries, including Ukraine and other countries. There are examples here in this thread in the meantime.
No, this question is a logical consequence of your initial suggestion: Corruption spreading from Russia. Maybe it was just common whataboutism, I don’t know. Then again, by saying now no one knows if Russia was indeed involved you go back to the original insinuation. I’m lost (
I don't know why you react so uneasy. No one can be happy if Russia is interfering in democratic societies, I hope you agree at least in this point.
Yeah, of course. I hope you also agree that it’s problematic that the US is interfering in democratic societies, I just don’t see how it’s relevant in this context.
that the US is interfering in democratic societies, I just don’t see how it’s relevant in this context.
Yeah, it is also bad if the US is interfering in democratic societies, but it’s irrelevant in this context. I agree. Don't know why you bring it up.
Because it’s just as irrelevant. As an example. The Ukrainian parliament managed to do this all by itself.