Ask Lemmy

I won't cry if anyone dies while hunting, but i do love venison

I won't shame somebody who would otherwise literally die of starvation if they hunt, buther, cook, and eat non-endangered animals for food.

That's about as understanding as I'm gonna get. I suppose I may disrespect slightly less someone's regular meat consumption if they went through all the time and effort themselves.

Population control is a copout. We should reintroduce the predators that were preventing overpopulation in the first place.

Except as I'm typing this out, I remember the dog who lives with us and how wr feed him meat based dog food since that's what his biology requires. So I'm rather selective and inconsistent about meat sourcing here, so I don't quite know how to conclude this comment at this point so I'm gonna just send it

I don't think the solution to the predators being gone is for humans to fill the gap, rather to let the predators make a return.

Here in Sweden we're looking to shoot most of our wolves for no good reason. That is after a considerable effort to stabilise the population and bring genetic diversity back to it.

Hunting for sport and trophies is bad, but hunting for meat is a hell of a lot more ethical than industrial meat production. Interestingly I’ve known people that were Vegan due to the ethics of commercial animal handling, but were also hunting and would eat meat from animals killed in the hunting team.

I live in Sweden and hunting is pretty common here, even though I’m not personally involved. There are limits on when and how many animals you may shoot and when to make sure the population is healthy.

Instead of killing, try a trip just to photograph the animals. Then compare your experiences. The killing may not be what you enjoy about your hunting trips.

It is a perfectly fine thing. Humans are part of the ecosystem. We are predators and fill that niche. So long as we do so with attention paid to ensure it is done sustainably then there is nothing wrong.

It's awful.

The equation is simple

Not eating meat >>> Killing for meat >>> Funding meat factories who make animals suffer.

hunting for food is ethical, over killing, killing for profit, killing for sport are not.

the impact of hunting for food is so far below the impact of industrial agriculture and other things, it's fine

I've worked in wildlife conservation, and I'm all for it. With a few caveats.

• Be a fucking good shot. Practice. Don't slop and wound. Humane kills to the greatest extent possible. Know what the fuck you're doing.
• Eat the meat. Venison is delicious. Harvest, don't just take a trophy.
• No spears. Holy shit, please. See point 1. Why is this still a thing? Even a niche thing, but still.
• Don't scoff at tag prices. Be proud of your contribution. Donate to the crunchy granola hippies that ensure you have game to hunt.

I'm pretty simple.

Hunting to eat it? Great. I love me some deer sausage.

Hunting to chopoff its head and mount it on your wall like some ghoulish asshole? Go fuck yourself.

I feel like trophy hunters don't show any respect to the animal, while hunters for eating do.

Shooting a deer that’s lived wild and free, making every effort to make the kill as quick and painless as possible seems like just about the most ethical way to get meat that I can think of. And especially in areas where the deer population is too high, it’s really important for managing the ecosystem. Plus, ammo and equipment sales get taxed specifically to fund conservation, which is important.

I also feel like if you can’t stomach the process of killing and cleaning an animal, maybe you shouldn’t eat meat at all?

By and large, I think hunting for food is a great way to get more in touch with where your food comes from, one of the most ethical ways to acquire meat, and a nice excuse to sit quietly in the woods without interruption. Trophy hunters can fuck off tho.

A lot of people bring up the moral problems with eating meat, but I have barely any such issue in regard to wild animals, especially those overpopulating areas.

Of course, if a company ever made a big product out of reselling venison, we’d probably get perverse incentives where someone would start trapping and farming them. So, it ends up just being a homey domain of hobbyist hunters and all their family friends - but one I respect a lot.

Hunting with a valid reason (for food, population control, etc.) is acceptable and/or a necessity.

Hunting for funsies only - including all the BS safari hunting that are essentially glorified high tech fishing trips - is disgusting

not the answer you're looking for, but: i haven't eaten meat in five years, am the healthiest I've ever been, and no longer feel guilty about eating

Hunting for food is fine.

Hunting for trophies is not.

As a hunter myself, here are a few thoughts that come to mind on the subject:

1. As is almost always the case, “hunters” are not a homogeneous group. There are many reasonable hunters who hunt, among other reasons, because it’s an honest, nature-oriented, and animal-welfare-conscious way to obtain meat for their own consumption. But there are also idiots who are just eager to kill and/or want to bag big trophies (perhaps because they need to compensate for personal shortcomings). In my experience, however, that's only a tiny minority of the hunters I've met so far. Especially because of the pandemic, many people have been thinking about this topic, and I hope that young people will bring a breath of fresh air and sensible ideas to the community in this area as well. In my experience, the stereotype of the psychopathic gun nut is simply not true in the vast majority of cases.

2. We live in a cultural landscape. We must live in a cultural landscape because our survival (yes, even ~~after we’re gone~~ if we're vegan) depends on our ability to grow enough crops to feed ourselves. In a cultural landscape heavily shaped by human activity, natural regulatory mechanisms (more on this below) do not function, or function only to a very limited extent, because, for example, wild boars find much more food than they would in a natural (forest) ecosystem, which results in correspondingly high reproduction rates (up to 200% for wild boars). So I don’t think we can manage in the long term without some form of regulation. (It should be noted here that I am a big fan of predators like wolves and bears, and that we should reintroduce them wherever possible if we can manage to coexist with them.... Wolves and lynx, for example, are much better at regulating roe deer populations (or preventing overgrazing of young trees) than human hunters.) Furthermore, wildlife populations are only partially regulated by predators. For many species, disease and weather conditions play a more decisive role. These are, in and of themselves, natural processes that ensure populations do not get out of control and/or cannot permanently overuse local resources. In both cases, however, “natural regulation” is accompanied by an agonizing death for the individual, and it is this death itself that seems to be the main point of contention for some opponents of hunting, more on this below.

3. Ethical Considerations. Assuming I do my job as a hunter correctly, the animal (let’s say a deer) dies on the spot within seconds without suffering for long. If I don’t shoot the animal (and, as is currently the case in many countries, there are no large predators because they have been exterminated), it dies after about 15 years “of old age,” as the saying goes. What does that mean for the individual in practice? Eventually, its teeth become so worn down that it can no longer feed itself properly; it grows weaker, will likely fall ill at some point because its immune system weakens, and will either be strangled by a red fox, starve to death, freeze to death, or succumb to disease. In any case, the agony is significantly longer than if it were killed by a clean shot. So no matter how you look at it: There is no chance that the roe deer will not die, and (at least from my perspective) death by a well-placed bullet is the quickest, least stressful, and most painless death a roe deer can expect in the wild.

/edit: removed some dashed because I'm not a native english speaker and use an AI translator for more elaborate answers.

I get a lot of down votes for this but it's important since we wiped out natural predators. One of my favorite days was cooking up some venison my students; we had a field day or whatever and no the meat came from another hunter.

I almost died when a a bunch crossed over the highway in the middle of the night. Tokyo drift instincts kicked in lol. Thankfully a buddy bought a Jeep XJ and it saved his ass.

Then there's this ongoing argument against firearms; do you shoot the deer that ran into your car or beat it to it's death with a blunt object? And I mean this in a humane question, otherwise you leave it die suffering in pain.

I only go for kill shots. None of this trophy bullshit. I'm not going to make a game of chasing around a wounded animal.

I completely agree with you on every point.

if I couldn't handle killing and gutting an animal I shouldn't be eating meat

I had this exact line of thinking. But for me that means I don't eat meat anymore. Killing really turns my stomach, and I don't actually need meat to be healthy.

But I love hiking and camping, I just bring my own food instead of a gun or fishing pole.

Spent a lot of my youth on the family ranch in the foothills of the Sierra Madre. Grass fed beef, they, the cows, had pretty idyllic lives up until the end there. I have never had a problem eating a good steak. I certainly don't have a problem with someone killing and eating a deer. We've decimated the apex predators that should be culling the wild deer herds anyway.

Depends on the type. Hunting pests like rabbits possums pigs, inseason game like ducks, pheasant and deer is all great. I dont like hunting rare endangered animals or helicopter hunting with a machine gun except if its a pest culling like feral pigs.

For the activity I really enjoy it. Its a great outdoor activity to do with friends and family. I like getting up early and heading out across the paddocks in the crisp morning and seeing the sun come out. I dont like butchering because im pretty odd about textures and smells but i'll do it when i have to. I dont find it to be inhumane at all.

Do it responsibly and eat what you hunt?

Go to town.

I totally agree with you. It's far more humane. They get to live a natural life in the wild and the death is often far better than what they'd face to a natural predator. It also has a very small carbon footprint.

I don't hunt, and probably never will. It's not really the killing and butchery that keeps me from doing it (I think I could handle that), but more the activity isn't appealing to me, and I also don't live in a great area for it. I have ADHD I'm pretty sure though, and the idea of sitting there for hours sounds horrible. I like camping, but I can't be active and do things while camping.

I'm more curious of people who are against hunting. I can't really think of a good ethical argument against it. I can understand an emotional argument, being against hurting animals, but that isn't logical really. That's part of nature. They will be hunted, by humans or otherwise, or their population will get out of control and they'll die horribly from starvation. If anyone does have an ethical argument against hunting I'd love to hear it!

Deer are a serious problem for most farmers in my area. Farmers have resorted to mass shootings of them, sometimes 20 or more a night. To remedy this the Game Commission issues multiple additional permits.
I have hunted all my life. As a kid wild game was food for the family. Now, venison is a delicacy for the table. Done right game is fantastic. Done wrong, it will turn your stomach.
I prefer to harvest a calm doe - special permits are only for doe, officially called, "antlerless" deer which are deer with no antlers or very small ones. One clean shot is preferred. This is where whatever weapon you use, practice and more practice counts. You must precisely place your shot. Of course, archery only gives you one shot. Archery deer produce especially good table fare because they bleed out completely and painlessly.
Once downed, the animal is field dressed and skinned as soon as possible. Then the carcass is immediately cooled.
People that harvest an animal that has been run and/or poorly bled out or left to sit around have meat that loses a lot of fine eating quality. Bucks, especially those in rut, have a strong taste - most people around here relegate the meat to sausage containing a mix of pork and seasonings to render it decently edible.
Hunting properly requires a LOT patience but it is a great way to get out and be with yourself to think, enjoy the woods and ruminate because not every trip yields good wild food.

I wouldn't be interested in going hunting myself.

I would disapprove of hunting for sport.

If someone does hunt and it's actually for food or whatever, I don't like it but it's not such a priority that I'm going to die on that hill.

You might be interested in deer management on the Isle of Jura, in Scotland. The human population is a couple of hundred; there are 5,000 red deer. https://www.juradmg.co.uk/

Personally I applaud hunting for food. We are animals too, part of the ecosystem. Hunting just for trophies is disgusting though.