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Norway: Chinese-made electric buses have major security flaw, can be remotely stopped and disabled by their manufacturer in China, Oslo operator says

The public transport operator in Norway's capital said Tuesday that some electric buses from China have a serious flaw -- software that could allow the manufacturer, or nefarious actors, to take control of the vehicle.

Oslo's transport operator Ruter said they had tested two electric buses this summer -- one built by China's Yutong and the other by Dutch firm VDL.

The Chinese model featured a SIM card that allowed the manufacturer to remotely install software updates that made it vulnerable, whereas the Dutch model did not.

"We've found that everything that is connected poses a risk -- and that includes buses," Ruter director Bernt Reitan Jenssen told public broadcaster NRK.

"There is a risk that for example suppliers could take control, but also that other players could break into this value chain and influence the buses."

Ruter said it was now developing a digital firewall to guard against the issue.

According to other reports, the Chinese manufacturer has access to each bus’s software updates, diagnostics, and battery control systems. β€œIn theory, the bus could therefore be stopped or rendered unusable by the manufacturer,” the company said.

Ruter has reported its findings to Norway’s Ministry of Transport and Communications.

Arild Tjomsland, a special advisor at the University of South-Eastern Norway who helped conduct the tests, said: β€œThe Chinese bus can be stopped, turned off, or receive updates that can destroy the technology that the bus needs to operate normally.”

[...]

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[–] plyth@feddit.org 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Don't forget that the Norwegian phone network can block access to all Chinese sims in case of war, and then only allow connections from known origins. With all the other Chinese electronics and cars they have to implement it anyway.

[–] Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 36 minutes ago

The Chinese model featured a SIM card that allowed the manufacturer to remotely install software updates that made it vulnerable, whereas the Dutch model did not.

[–] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (3 children)

I take it 'SIM card' in this case does not mean what it means with a cellphone.

It very much does mean the sort that is in a cellphone, connecting to GSM networks. Anytime you hear about a car that has OTA updates, that's how they're doing it. That includes electric cars like Tesla, but also ICE cars made by Hyundai, Honda, BMW and others. Manufacturers have been found to be selling information about your driving patterns to insurance companies without the consent of the owner, affecting their premiums.

They can afford too because they are data-only plans, bought in large bulk quantities, with fairly low data caps.

[–] JASN_DE@feddit.org 4 points 2 hours ago

Nowadays most likely some form of eSIM, but yeah, pretty much the same as in a cellphone.

[–] Kornblumenratte@feddit.org 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Almost all cars are permanent online nowadays, not only EVs, and the cat's manufacturer has a detailed profile on it. This has been standard tech for years.

Investigating a modern car and finding a SIM card is as surprising as finding an engine or a break. The odd one out is not the Chinese bus, but the Dutch one, if it really has no SIM card

[–] Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

The Chinese model featured a SIM card that allowed the manufacturer to remotely install software updates that made it vulnerable, whereas the Dutch model did not.

@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone

Genuinely sick of this shit. From anyone. I can't build all my own shit. I don't need my couch spying on me, thats what my phone is for.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 33 points 21 hours ago (16 children)

It's mind boggling that EU allows communication from/to vehicles and appliances (without opt-in?) and without a hardware switch that disables all communication in first place.

[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

This is from Norway, they don't have anything to do with the EU.

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 points 1 hour ago

True, but it applies to EU as well. And the same goes to Norway or other European countries.

[–] fatalicus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

We do, through the EEA.

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[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 24 points 20 hours ago (14 children)

Iveco makes ~50% of European buses. The next biggest is Mercades. Then MAN. They all do this. Weird how people came away from the article thinking this is a Chinese problem though.

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 8 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Please read the article before commenting.

[–] newaccountwhodis@lemmy.ml 9 points 13 hours ago

The article does not mention the biggest bus manufacturers that do exactly the same. It does however recontextualize that lurid headline as remote updates are industry standard.

[–] Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org 19 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (4 children)

@alcoholicorn@hexbear.net

The Chinese model featured a SIM card that allowed the manufacturer to remotely install software updates that made it vulnerable, whereas the Dutch model did not.

And even if you are right, it makes a huge difference whether a European company does that or a malign foreign state-actor. For the same reasone, btw, China has been banning European and other non-Chinese companies from their domestic markets. For example, China's ban of Nokia and Ericsson from its domestic networks was said to be over national security. Europe must do the same.

[–] Kornblumenratte@feddit.org 1 points 1 hour ago

Yes, that's what the article states.

Nonetheless all modern vehicle use computers that need updating. This is not a Chinese problem, it is a well known problem inherent to modern car tech. If the Dutch model's computer is air gapped, it's one of a kind.

And I agree, vehicules shouldn't be connected to the Internet.

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 11 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

europe should just ban internet connected vehicles. entertainment system? fine if it can be easily disabled. anything else? hard no!

[–] newaccountwhodis@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

If Germany left the EU this might happen. But the BMW state wont ever let regulation of car manufacturers happen. Except maybe if it only targets "foreign" companies.

I don't think this sort of regulation would require unanimity in the same way certain functions of the EU do.

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[–] passepartout@feddit.org 9 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

Those are all European companies though.

[–] Tja@programming.dev 5 points 13 hours ago

Exactly. If they do anything weird (even by mistake) Norway can sue them into oblivion. Good luck doing that with a Chinese company.

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[–] Greddan@feddit.org 84 points 1 day ago (54 children)

Don't be a cheap cunt. Buy European.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 26 points 21 hours ago

Dont forget those polish trains, this is not simply a china vs west situation, this ridiculously wide spread. Lawmakers should have been all over this years ago!

[–] hayvan@feddit.nl 21 points 22 hours ago (12 children)

It's less about that. Buy things you actually own, independent of the supplier. Sure, I'd rather have a European supplier to control my stuff than Chinese one, it's not even a competition, but come on.

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[–] vodka@feddit.org 21 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (9 children)

There's an even bigger issue with these busses.

They were never made for the cold of Norway, and the electric heating couldn't keep them warm even in the relative mild winters that Oslo has. To fix this they installed auxiliary diesel heaters. These diesel heaters use more diesel(see edit) to keep the busses warm than the previous generation of diesel hybrid busses used to both fuel the engine, and keep the busses warm.

So the new EV busses that were supposed to lower local pollution ended up costing more and polluting more.

Edit: these heaters haven't actually been tested in a winter scenario, and the "diesel consumption exceeds the previous busses" claim is based on just looking at the spec sheet for the diesel heaters to be fitted. And it's compared to the previous plug-in hybrid busses which obviously had a lot of their fuel consumption covered by being plug-in

[–] twelvety@fedia.io 38 points 1 day ago (3 children)

So, just like any vehicle that downloads software updates from its manufacturer?

If they do that, the manufacturer can add whatever they like to specific vehicles, including kill switches.

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