1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, toxicity and dog-whistling are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
Another factor, there's so few of you that escape the country (only 48% of you have a passport) that the only ones folks in EU mostly see are;
So here's a Canadian answer.
I have found that, on average, Americans speak at a higher volume than folks from my country. At the same time, they seem more willing to share things that we wouldn't except in more familiar company. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but there are times when I would recommend a touch more discretion.
For the most part I think you'll be fine in Australia. Just whatever you do, DON'T support Collingwood and DON'T drink Fosters.
Volume for sure, but also Americans seem to be largely incapable of experiencing silence. They tend to fill silence as if they love the sound of their own voice.
Obviously this isn't all Americans, and my only experience of Americans are when they're tourists.
You say you listen more than you speak so you're probably fine. Even just asking about how to not be annoying shows you have more self awareness than any American I've ever met
Thank you so much for your reply!
The constant talking thing is definitely cultural. Americans get nervous during silence in conversations because we think there is something wrong like we’re not interesting or people don’t value us or something. It’s absolutely our own stupid hang up.
People from the Netherlands are loud too.
It's something about when you guys walk around in a larger group. Most of you just have a higer volume setting. Like you are trying to get heard by every bystander as well. When hiking through the Balkans I could hear Americans from far away.
Australians seem te be loud as well so you'll be fine I guess...
But who's generalizing?
Let me put it this way: When I am in a restaurant/bar/pub/similar place, I can't follow the conversations of the people at the other tables. However, with US-Americans, I understand every single word, even if they're two tables over. Their normal conversational volume is just so much higher. To them, it is completely normal, and they don't seem to notice. To us, they're speaking very loudly, as if everyone were hard of hearing, or as if we were on a construction site.
I went to Geneva, Switzerland when I was in college. There was a public square with about 1000 Swiss eating at different tables, all leaning forward like they were telling secrets. We 6 American college students were louder than all the 1000 Swiss in the square, by volume.
As an Australian, I took up baseball because the crowd is far more pleasant than the Aussie Rules football mob.
You'll be fine. Half of Australia doesn't have an "inside" voice.
I wonder how true this is now or if its something that is more from last millenia. With everyone on their phones now I just can't imagine its quite the same. Granted every so often you run into the person with their speakers playing the game/media sounds rather than earbuds.
It means the other country is perpetuating stereotypes.
Let me tell you a few more:
To be clear, I don’t agree with or believe any of the above, I am just telling you the stereotypes.
Absolutely. It’s a fair point. People are people and should be judged on their individual basis.
Thank you for your answer.
I think it just means louder that most (but not all) of the other people. I didn't think much of it until I had some American friends visit me and I took them to bar near where I live. I didn't really noticed anything while we were all sitting together.
When I crossed the room to go to the bar for another round, then I noticed that I could clearly hear my American friends voices above everyone one else in the room. I could clearly hear their conversation from across the bar. They were just speaking somewhat louder than everyone else.
Very interesting!
Someone else made a comment that I found interesting which was about how Americans usually speak far apart compared with other cultures that lower their voices and lean in. It has me thinking about how much space we have here and the ingrained competition which makes us naturally speak louder.
Another thing after talking to my wife is that there are a lot of large American families and children vie for the attention of others, which means having to speak up and over their siblings which sort of trains us to be that way.
It’s all fascinating to me to think about. Thank you for your answer!
Another thing after talking to my wife is that there are a lot of large American families and children vie for the attention of others, which means having to speak up and over their siblings which sort of trains us to be that way.
Mmmm, it's a theory I suppose but I have a large family. Our dinner table is busy but not loud (except with raucous laughter which is semi frequently in fairness). Cross conversations go on all the time, it's just the nature of lots of people at a table.
My own experience with American tourists is that it's a volume thing. Interestingly I don't recall noticing it as much while visiting the states but definitely slightly louder than other cultures.
Sounds like you won't have any issue anyway.
Good luck with the move! I've never heard anyone come back from Australia with a bad word to say about it and lots of my fellow countryfolk do a year there (including my sister and bestie).
Americans speak loud, you hear them from a faar and can spot them easily
Understandable. Thank you for your answer.
You talk loud and don't shut the fuck up. Yes, you have an opinion on everything. Yes, you think your country's great. Yes, you think you are great also. Shut up.
I remember being on holiday in Thailand, visiting a village that very clearly had set aside an area as a market for tourists. The Americans decided to have a conversation between one area and another about heading off to look at the village school or whatever. EVERYBODY ELSE, locals and tourists, could tell this specific area was for tourists, but the USAians just couldn't read the room and had to loudly talk about it. JFC it was painful to witness.
Thank you for your answer. We Americans can be very stupid when it comes to reading the room and observing things for sure.
I flew back to America from Tokyo today and as a frequent traveler to Japan I can tell you it's all of the above. As a very introverted, easily overstimulated person I love going to Japan because it's my 'quiet time'. Coming home I'm usually overwhelmed by the sheer noise of being in America.
Hopefully this didn't come across too much as venting. I can't wait to go back.
Thank you for your answer! It’s definitely not coming across as venting. You have some great thoughts and the idea about standing further away when speaking really hits home to me as something I’ve been thinking might be part of the reason for our loudness as I’ve been reading other answers.
Thanks for the Tokyo insight as well. Our family has booked a trip to Japan this Fall, so we’ve been trying to brush up on culture and language as best we can so we aren’t total assholes over there. 😂
Sometimes literally loud(New Jersey residents raise your hands), but usually also overbearing, painfully extroverted, having to control conversations, injecting themselves into what didn't need them, etc.
I'm not judging from the outside. As an American that at one time was married to an Australian, we met when I was stationed there and we were both at the same base so I would see how my squadmates behaved then later when they had gone off to the racks, I'd get to hear the Aussie service members mock and laugh at some of the behaviors of the guys I came over with. They would joke that I had to be an immigrant because I rarely talked.
It's not an "all Americans do this" type of thing, it's that the Americans that do this are so impactful in a negative way that it becomes a cliched caricature. If you're not that type of person, you won't need to do anything to assimilate, you'll fit in just fine. Those folks were some of the best people I've ever met in my life and they were very welcoming and inclusive.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! Your last paragraph is pretty much what I was thinking, but I also wanted to gather some opinions.
I will just be myself and hopefully be one of the ones that leaves a great impression. I am finishing my masters degree in elementary education and I hope to eventually get a job teaching over there if we move. I am so excited to learn their culture and history. It’ll be an awesome experience to have my knowledge and learn theirs while sharing between us.
you will not be a loud American in Australia, they won't allow you to be louder then they are
its bizzaro world down under
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I only visited Sydney and Cairns, but they were definitely not loud to me. They seemed the same as most Americans that I know. Maybe that’s the point though? I don’t notice how loud we are in actuality?
I don't think you would notice just walking down the street. Try being in an environment where you actually deal with people consistently over time, such as a classroom, an office, or a place where you volunteer.
As European travelling in Asia at the moment, I notice this a lot.
There are loud people from all countries, and Americans are at least pretty nice usually. But in my opinion it's true, you are also louder than most.
Thank you for this answer!
It really has me thinking about why we speak louder. It’s got to be something to do about our culture here. Proud? Bravado? We have more space and we’re used to having to project our voices? The want to be heard over others (competition)? I really have no clue, but it’s an interesting subject.
This is a very balanced take. I appreciate it ☺️
I've been told by non-Americans that Americans (myself included):
edit: since you mentioned Australia, I'll point out that I've heard this primarily from European, Indian and Southeast Asian software developers I've worked with. I've worked with fewer Australians, and as far as I can recall we never discussed American stereotypes directly, but my impression is that they're much closer to the US culturally, loudness / brashness-wise. Curious to hear from Aussies if you think my impression is correct.
There's a whole wikipedia article about the "American lean." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_lean
American spies are trained not to do it.
That's very funny. Has it really been a "thing" recently? I feel like it's been years since I've heard someone mention it. Maybe it got subliminally resurfaced.
Almost all of the references on that wiki page are from the last couple of months - I assume it’s been trending on social media recently.
I definitely agree that many Americans butt in frequently. As someone that tends to be more of an observer, the moments I do talk o tend to get cut off and it’s annoying as absolute fuck.
I never thought about the leaning on things. I’m a bigger dude, which is probably mostly because of my poor choices, but I do know that I lean on things a lot to relieve stress on other body parts. That really comes down to needing to lose weight and lose my bad habits.
Thanks for this comment!
It's very hard to explain. I'm not American but I've migrated to Australia. What you will find is a culture that is probably much more polite and considerate of others than American culture, and also, the culture here doesn't appreciate individuality much. I'm painting this with broad generalizations so of course this will differ from person to person, but generally, this is my assessment.
Individuality isn't overtly shunned, people will tell you to be you, but subconsciously you will find the real attitude is that people who stand out are also set apart, semi ostracized. It takes loads of charisma to stand out in a positive light here. This is the land of the tall poppy syndrome. Difficult to put in words, I would bet money you won't notice upon your arrival, you'd be like "nah man that mothra dude on lemmy was talking shit, people here are super friendly" and then after a year or two you'll see the pattern. It's very subtle but very much there.
That makes total sense to me. Look at the culture, it’s about doing good for all (environmentally friendly, better healthcare for all, etc). I think you’re probably spot on.
Thank you for your answer. I’ll have to pay close attention to that if we end up moving there. Also, as a Godzilla fan I love your name!
American who left the country over a decade ago.
Many (of course not all) speak more loudly than they think and more than is necessary. This is especially noticeable when not competing against other people's voices/loudness in quiet places. That is, the default is higher and you might work to lower it or at least be aware of it depending upon the ambient volume and norms where you are (Americans aren't the only ones like this).
Many US folks also act differently to even other English-speaking countries. This can be extroversion, small talk in countries that don't do that, certain expectations of how things should work, etc. USAmericans are the folks I hear most saying "but it's not that way in my country!" (though again, not exclusively). How direct you are vs others is another one; many can be quite direct whereas other countries use more context and subtlety. My advice would just be to watch how other people interact more intently than just being around in the space until you get used to it. I've never lived in Australia so I couldn't specifically say
Tip for assimilating into Australian culture: learn the local language, don't just speak English. We have a lot of immigrant families who haven't bothered to learn the local language even after five or ten generations. They just speak English. Don't be like them.
Interesting! Can you tell me more about what you mean by the local language? Are there dominant languages in different states or territories that are other than English? Or do you mean slang and colloquialisms?
Sure, we've got dozens of Indigenous languages. Here's a handy map:
Whatever place you're moving to, figure out which country rightfully owns the land there, and make an effort to learn their language. For example, if you're moving to Arnhem Land, pick up some Yolngu. I'll get you started: The Yolngu word for didgeridoo is yidaki.
Australia isn't a country. That's a controversial opinion, but I believe it. Australia is a continent, home to dozens of countries, and one giant illegitimate colony. Most australian countries never surrendered to the British invasion. Victoria is the only state to have a treaty with Aboriginal peoples, and they signed it last year. The rest of Australia? According to the ancient laws of the land, it belongs to its First Peoples, and the colony is an illegal occupation. I do not recognise the king's colony of Australia as a legitimate nation.
Now, you're in a difficult position. You have to recognise the colony in order to move here. But once you do, I have a recommendation: Attend a Welcome to Country. Welcomes to Country are an ancient international law that govern tourism and immigration between Australian countries. In order to legitimately travel to an Australian country, one is expected to attend a Welcome, just like one might get a visa from a western state. Welcomes traditionally make tourists and visitors aware of the local laws and requirements. These days, they go a lot faster, but the tradition is the same. It's the proper way to travel across this continent.
It's a joke about Australia already being populated when England colonized it.
Oooooh! Thank you!
I was kind of wondering if there was something about the indigenous people and their language in there.
The fact that you're asking/concerned tells me you'll probably be ok.
I'm an American who moved to Australia for a while. I wasn't ever pegged as an American because of my voice volume. What caught me was my smile; easy-coming with white, straight teeth exposed. I was told I could be confused for a Canadian except that I spoke too fast. Apparently, the speed-quipping Letterkenny sorts hadn't made it to Australia yet.
Also, think about what you want by "assimilation". You would probably enjoy getting to know an Aussie visiting the US, no? Getting to hear their perspective on the country they're visiting? Enjoying seeing them experience our cultural quirks? Assume the same good faith of Australians. Current politics aside, Americans and Australians have a very friendly history.
My weirdest, most uncomfortable repeat experience had a gendered element that you probably won't experience but your wife might. Older (50+) dudes on several occasions took the liberty of telling me, an American woman, all about how American soldiers stationed in Australia during l WW2 "stole" all the womens' attention. They were just so hygienic and handsome in their uniforms, the Aussie men didn't have a chance. So yeah, some might have a weird grudge over their fathers or grandfathers going through a dry spell almost a century ago. I share this story to illustrate that people are people, same is Australia. You will neither be universally liked nor universally hated by all Australians. Most of them are decent sorts, and a few of them are massive assholes.
Don't attempt shrimp on the barbie or baby-eating dingo jokes until you know a person very well.
Thank you so much for this answer! You have some fantastic advice and anecdotes here. I definitely speak quickly and now it has me wondering why that is. It’s an interesting quirk and I’ll see if I can curb it some.
I’m finishing my masters program for elementary education, so I have to slow down some anyway because of speaking with linguistically diverse children so maybe that’s will help. I’m hoping to land a job as a teacher at some point over there after I get my foot in the door being a relief (substitute) teacher.
Australians are pretty loud too. You'll be fine.
lol. I appreciate this comment. Honestly, I’ve been to Australia, Italy, Germany, and Mexico. Every country has these people. I just find it interesting that Americans are called out for it so much, but I also kind of get it too. 😂
Most Americans cannot afford to spend big on Transatlantic vacations. So the loud people are most often people in a certain income bracket & higher who are just mannerless in the first place. These are also the people who get pissed off that (insert country here) is not speaking English to them.
America has a reputation, and not just as vacationers, for doing everything over the top and at high volume. Just listen to people when you are out.
