Bernie Sanders has been repeatedly uttering the phrase “Israel has a right to defend itself” on his “Fighting Oligarchy” tour with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, which in the year 2025 can only be interpreted as blatant genocide apologia.
Israel does not have “a right to defend itself” against an occupied population in a giant concentration camp. Under international law it has a right to end the occupation, and that’s it. “Israel has a right to defend itself” is just a slogan people say when they want to justify supplying an ongoing genocide.
Sanders has been mixing his support for Israel in with periodic criticisms of Netanyahu and the Israeli government’s actions in Gaza, always taking care to make his criticisms about the behavior of Israel’s current leadership and not the nature of the racist apartheid state itself.
Sanders is doing this for two reasons. Firstly, he is working to galvanize a big tent inclusive coalition of Democrats in opposition to Trump, and he wants that big tent to include people who think genocide is bad and people who think genocide is fine. He doesn’t want to offend the pro-genocide liberals.
Secondly, Sanders is doing this because he himself is a Zionist. Like other liberal Zionists, Bernie Sanders upholds a vision of an Israel that has never, ever existed: one which remains an ethnostate dominated by Jews, but which conducts itself in a kind and just manner, without constantly murdering and abusing Palestinians.
This iteration of the state of Israel is a fiction. An imaginary fantasyland, like Narnia. Everything about Israel is stacked against the possibility of such a status quo ever emerging, and Israel has always done everything it can to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state. By pretending it is possible to have the Zionist entity and also have peace and justice, liberal Zionists help manufacture public consent for continuing to feed weapons to the genocidal apartheid state of Israel.
Yes, let's fracture the progressive movement even more...
Genocide support is incompatible with progressiveism.
Or wait check this out: Bernie Sanders stops advocating for genocide.
I agree, he should. Posting this type of hackneyed hitpiece targeting one of the few people in power attempting to make a difference in progressive politics hurts the movement more than helping anyone. You are sewing the exact division that billionaires and conservatives hope you would. Does it feel good doing their bidding?
It is not hard to not repeat genocide propaganda at the beginning of every speech. And blame Israel instead of Netanyahu.
You are the one advocating for the billionaire conservative movement.
Are you listening to yourself when you advocate for a pro-genocide "progressive" movement?
Are you reading the room? As it doesn’t appear so.
There appear to be a lot of Nazis in it and they should get out.
Brother. You can go and read my entire post history and you’ll see I’ve been nothing but anti Israeli Zionism and pro-Palestine and I think you’re reaching here.
Furthermore, you’re watering down the term Nazi by throwing it around so liberally. I think you should go and do some introspection about how you converse with people.
Do you believe Israel has the right to exist?
Instigators of conflict dont get to claim self defense.
Thats well established across most of the world's legal frameworks. Also, oppressed peoples are entitled to rebel, even armed rebellion. Thats in the UN charter and the universal declaration of human rights in addition to international humanitarian law. When the US signs treaties -- like the founding of the UN, they become bound by those within US law.
Israel was founded using irgun terrorism (no one debates this, not even the zionists) and so should never have been founded, and does not have any inherent right to continue to exist in its current form. War crimes regimes must be ended for basic human dignity to exist. The site Israel sits on should be either returned to the remainder of the Ottoman empire, or given back to the UN to be arbitrated by the world-- after the veto has been removed from the UN charter, of course. The world has moved past the existing security council and the seven permanenet members cant be trusted with veto power.
If Bernie cant agree with this then things have to change. Progressives arent a member of Bernie, Bernie is a member of progressives, and he doesnt own the brand, we collectively do. He follows the basic tenets of progressivism whether he agrees to them or not, or he gets the boot. Political parties have tolerated cult of personality rebellions with the party platform way too much, which is what brought us to this crisis. Bernie needs to bend to progressivism or be thanked for his service and ejected.
Well spoken.
What does it matter what I believe?
For what it’s worth Israeli’s should have a home. That doesn’t mean I support current Israeli government policies, settlers, genocide, concentration camps, murdering civilians, murdering medics, murdering the press, or war crimes.
The fact that you asked this question leads me to think you have a naive view of the world and think a simple question can give you insight.
If you support the existence of Israel you are a Zionist. That is the definition of Zionism. Israelis can have a home outside of occupied Palestine. This simple question gets right to the root of the issue and weeds out all the neoliberals.
Your naive world view on letting politicians support a genocide without pushback is what is is simple. It does not matter Bernie is support genocide less than the rest of American politicians. He should be not supporting it whatsoever. And stop saying Israel has the right to defend itself.
Shitlibs really do only have threats of violence to prop up their ideology
Yeah cause I haven’t conversed with this clown across a couple of days and there crazy generalisations, fitting that you would come in and generalise people too. Well done.
You're threatening physical assault against people for opposing genocide, poor baby whining about "generalising"
I said I would have hit them for calling me a Nazi and a Zionist.
Are you as dense as them that you can’t see I have also been opposing a genocide, it’s just I’m doing it with a little more nuance than the other clown.
Ah yes, the nuance of threatening physical violence and showering everyone who disagrees with you with insults
Ah so you’re as dense as them.
I am not objecting to people with a difference of opinion, I am outraged that the other person is calling me a Nazi and a Zionist and seems to be arguing in bad faith.
Since you want to fellate them so much, you can go live in the block list with them.
Going to throw some homophobia in with all those insults aye? Makes sense from a Nazi
Please do. This is the face your Palestinian "friends" will make 😬
You think we’ve not had these discussions before?
Let me ask you this, do you believe all Jews in Israel are zionists? Or do you believe that it is the government in power?
Much the same as the USA, not where I am from, do you believe everybody supports Trump?
Your question should be
And the answer to that is going to be a more than 99% yes.
Similarly more than 99% of the Jews in Israel are Zionists.
There are Liberal Zionists like Bernie Sanders or right wingers like Marco Rubio (which Bernie Sanders voted to confirm) in Israel as well. But they all believe in an ethnostate based on Jewish supremacy.
Going to need a source on the 99% of Israelis are zionists.
95% of them support the genocide what the hell are you on about
More than 60% straight up admit they want to kill every last Palestinian
It is telling that you believe Israelis are not literal Nazis. They are literal Nazis. Get it through your head already. They live in Israel of course they are Zionists. There are extremely few dissidents such as Gideon Levy actively opposing Israel. Gideon has made that very clear in his videos.
I think you’re over simplifying the issue a little here.
On first glance it seems the first one, 95%, figure was taken in January 2024, not long after October 7th and understandably tensions were high, and propaganda is high coming from the Israeli government and it’s supporters.
The over simplification comes from your 60% figure. You’re conflating that these people think they have a God given right to that land with genocide.
I don’t have the answer but labelling all Israeli Jews as Nazis is a little much imo. I do believe a genocide is happening and I believe Israel and the west are in the wrong, and i wholeheartedly support Palestinians and can empathise with Hamas being somewhat necessary as a means of fighting back, but I really don’t like the idea of labelling all of any demographic with the same label.
This is three months into the genocide. It was beyond obvious and indefensible what was going on at week 2.
You mean like how the Israeli surpreme court literally just said exactly that?
Yes but my issue is with the claim it is every Israeli, I’ve been quite clear that I’m not defending the government.
Israel is the Israeli government. That is kind of the definition.
Do you believe the Israeli government has a right to exist?
A country is not its government. If half the people vote in the current government then the other half didn’t.
No I don’t believe this Israeli government should exist.
No a government very much defines the country. Especially in the case of a colony. Let me word the question to specifically describe Israel:
Do you support the existence of a colonial ethnostate based on Jewish racial surpremacy?
You’re saying that if I vote for person A and then person B gets elected that I support person B.
You see how that’s illogical right?
Israelis in every party support what I described above. A few fringe Arabs in it do not but they recently got booted.
The Israeli surpreme court, the highest order of the countries foundational laws said that Jews have a religious right to genocide others in Israel.
Israel by its very core definition is what I described above. If you disagree let me know why.
Don’t see why I should answer when you didn’t answer my last one.
But sure, plenty of Israelis protesting their government. That kind of debunks your suggestion.
Here is an Israeli newspaper with an article from 2 days ago explaining how terribly wrong you are.
Here’s a list of Jewish anti-Zionist organisations. Perhaps you could go and volunteer and meet the Jewish people there.
Those organisations aren't Israeli you dishonest Nazi.
Here we go again with the name calling because you appear to be illiterate.
From the very link I provided, odd it’s in Jerusalem and founded by a Rabbi.
Anyway I’ve given you enough good will I will cease communications now as you’re no debating in good faith.
You linked a list of Jewish organisations, not Israeli. The fact that some of them happen to be Israeli doesn't change that. You can't link a list of Jewish organizations in general as evidence of a point about Israel specifically.
Are you dense?
It’s a list of Jewish Anti-genocide organisations, which is literally the wording I used when I posted the link, perhaps you’re projecting as you’re being disingenuous.
Then that list contains groups of Jewish people against genocide in various countries around the world, some of which so happen to be in Israel.
So, it would appear you’re dense. If you’re ever in the UK I would love to sit down and we could discuss this in person because I find your behaviour and reasoning quite staggering.
Least dishonest genocide supporter.
Care to refute my claim above, perhaps with some sources that show these organisations are in fact not real.
Asshole.
What claim? You just linked a list of Jewish organizations in general as representative of Israel specifically, what exactly was your point, Nazi?
No. The other person said that all Israeli’s were Zionist. I posted a link with Israeli organisations of Israeli people who are anti-Zionist.
So just refuting their generalisations.
No, you posted a lost of Jewish organisations, that was literally my point, a point that you agreed with a few posts ago
This is about the level of dishonesty I expect from Nazis
Thank you for making my argument for me.
Perhaps you could go and volunteer and meet the Jewish people there.
So your argument against Jewish people being anti-Zionist is that US and Israeli leaders are condemning Jewish anti-zionists and that they should be denounced.
Seems contradictory no? Either there are Jewish people that are anti-Zionist or these people are denouncing something that doesn’t exist.
I have been more than accommodating hoping you might start to make some sense and not just post on vibes. So in that vain, I am regrettably going to have to block you. I have no ill feelings towards you and I wish you every success in life, I just don’t want to waste any more of my time conversing with someone who is either stupid or being purposefully ignorant.
Free 🇵🇸
These Jewish people oppose the existence of the Apartheid state of Israel. They are literally burning Israeli flags.
Do you support the existence of of Israel?