this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025
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[–] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 29 points 3 days ago (2 children)

If all natural-born citizens has to go through the naturalization process before getting the right to vote, trump would never have been elected.

Not just because they don't know the 100 (I think they changed it to 120 now?) questions, but also because they would not pass the:

"Have you ever been a member of any totalitarian party?
Have you ever been a member of a terrorist organization?
Have you ever advocated the overthrow of any government by force or violence?
Have you ever persecuted any person because of race, religion, national origin, or political opinion?" Questions

(Fun fact: They can revoke your citizenship after the fact if they catch you lying, or if you do any "terrorist" activity within 5 years of naturalization. Jan 6 riotor types would never pass this. As a naturalized citizen, I'm kinda dreading this since last November)

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[–] doug@lemmy.today 120 points 4 days ago (7 children)

As much as I enjoyed Idiocracy when it came out, I wish its proposed answer/crux of the issue wasn’t “smart people should have kids” and instead focused on educating the ones that are already here/brought into this world.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 91 points 4 days ago (2 children)

People want easy solutions, like "Have more people be born smart" instead of hard, complex, realistic ones like "Put time, effort, and resources into robust education of the population in stable familial and social environments to develop higher averages of generally recognized metrics of intelligence in the general population"

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 56 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

There was already a precedent for all this. After the Second World War, American jumped right into the Cold War with the Russians and wanted to take the lead in science, technology, rocketry, space and engineering. They quickly realized that their country at the time was ill equiped and not well trained or educated for all this ... so they took the shortcut of using former Nazis to head their science and technology fields for a few years. Then to take up the slack, the government heavily invested in education and training to pump out the scientists, engineers and professionals they needed to gear up their technological war with the Soviets.

So the 50s, 60s, and 70s got filled with a lot of bright well trained, well educated and informed young people. They were able to power the American war machine but a side effect to all that was all these insightful young people became the backbone of a counter culture that fought against war, capitalism, inequality, conservatism and racism and supported black rights, Native rights, women's rights, minority rights, animal rights and environmentalism.

Then they had to bring in people like Reagan and Thatcher to reign in these counter culture movements and swing the pendulum back again. Once they defeated the Soviets in the Cold War, conservative American had all the incentive to break everything down again and dumb down the population until it was a just a compliant pulp that could elect a clown.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 24 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Using former Nazis wasn't because there was a shortage of educated people in general in the US after WW2. The vast majority of Nazi scientists who made major contributions to US progress (or Soviet progress, for that matter), were in rocketry, which the Nazis put disproportionate effort and funding into.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 13 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Agreed ... but in order for the US to push through their rocket program, they needed scientists and researchers to develop, test, build, test, retest, and test some more all of the applied science that had been developed. The country needed to build an entire community of thousands of professionally trained technicians, scientists, engineers, professionals ... and with them had to come teams of administrators, academics, trainers, bureaucrats, office workers ... and with all of them had to come entire groups of trained builders, workers, electricians, plumbers, draftsmen, planners and all the people that came with ... and all that had to be supported by an industry that needed to build and develop all the things that had to be needed to get this monolith moving, which meant that all these corporations and businesses needed their own teams of professionally trained people.

It was a massive investment in education in order to get the ball rolling in industry to build the rocket program. It wasn't just building rockets ... it was building an entire industry upon industry upon industry to get to the point of building a single rocket that could launch anything into orbit.

The reason why any of it happened was that the government heavily invested in educating and training an entire population to make it all possible.

[–] Machinist@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

Your analysis is spot on. (most of my career has been in aerospace)

I would also add that the training programs and apprenticeships that were developed have been gutted as they destroyed the unions.

The whole rebuilding American manufacturing through tariffs is a total pipe dream. I'm one of the few machinists that stuck through the great recession in my generation. There are no where near enough people like me to train kids and the guys that taught me are dead.

It takes minimum, four years, to grow a self-sufficent machinist on the job. Trade schools are pretty much worthless, kids come out of trade school and they're fit to sweep floors or maybe punch a button if they're real sharp.

It would take twenty years of consistent government and corporate support to rebuild and we all they are too greedy and short sighted for that.

I assume it is similar for a lot of other trades.

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[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The US literally beat the Nazis to developing fission technology, i.e. nukes (admittedly with a very international research community). It's quite clear just from that, that the US had plenty of strong scientists before they brought in Nazis/Nazi collaborators from overseas.

As a complete side note: I believe it's been speculated (by people who know much more about this than me) that Nazi research on nukes, among other things, was hampered by researchers like Heisenberg deliberately dragging their feet because they were forced to work on the projects but didn't believe in the cause. I'm not meaning to clear the name of any Nazi collaborators, but pointing out that not all scientists working under the Nazi regime were necessarily nazis.

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[–] CriticalMiss@lemmy.world 20 points 4 days ago

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Idiocracy didn’t propose any solution at all. If I remember correctly, smart people not having kids was just a plot driver. Sadly, with the way things are that is how it’s gonna happen in our lifetime most likely. Education is getting worse over time, so the ones who’ll be able to educate their kids properly are those who are already educated.

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[–] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 39 points 4 days ago

In case you were wondering why we're losing our democracy to a felon rapist.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 20 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Can we fix that by abolishing the department of education?
It's only gonna get worse, isn't it?

[–] YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 6 points 3 days ago

By design. Learndt particular individuals tend not to vote for Nazis.

[–] percent@infosec.pub 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'm not disagreeing with you (I don't know enough about the department's operations), but I can understand why people are unhappy with the ED (Department of Education). It has existed for almost 40 years, and has spent tens (sometimes hundreds) of billions of dollars annually.

The result: Well, most Americans' reading level, as highlighted in this post. Also, a shocking number of people can't even name a single country in Africa – a big continent with more than 50 countries to choose from. Also, college borrowers in the US owe ~$1.5 trillion to the ED.

Should the ED be abolished? Honestly, I'm way to ignorant to even make an educated guess. But after so many decades, hundreds of billions of dollars spent, and $trillions of debt owed by students, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that something should at least change.

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[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works 49 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Which means 54% cannot write a competent book report hitting the major plots and themes.

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[–] khannie@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (7 children)

For us foreigners, 6th grade is around 10 / 11 years old?

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago

Yes, about. Ten years is peak reading for most Americans. And we wonder why they f-ck up the world.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Yep. God help us.

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[–] railcar@midwest.social 9 points 3 days ago

This is pretty much all you need to know about the state of the United States. It's being run by 10 year old imbeciles.

[–] nope@jlai.lu 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)
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[–] twinnie@feddit.uk 38 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Is this real? And what’s 6th grade for someone who isn’t American?

[–] Notyou@sopuli.xyz 52 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Around 12 years old or so. I've been hearing something similar to this my whole life. I didn't understand how true it was until I started recruiting in 2009.

Not that it started with Bush, but after 'No Child Left Behind' act schools were incentivized so pass all students. They tied school funding to graduation rates and passing students. Teachers taught more just to the test and not comprehending the material.

I'm sure it's gotten worse COVID.

[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip 23 points 4 days ago

In my high school they were passing people who were functionally illiterate to keep funding up. It was pretty much assumed those kids were a lost cause so they never got any extra help either. School would just look the other way as someone was lost in the cracks and passed on paper. The very rare ones that did manage to get extra help would take tests in a different room and it was well known the aids would just give them answers if they took too long. Everyone hated it especially the kids being passed through. They got ostracized for "having it easy" while also being frustrated they're spending all day being told to focus on stuff they don't understand and aren't getting real help with

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 34 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I think 6th grade is reading for plot. Just a basic plot with a few characters. No complex themes. No unreliable narrators. Limited vocabulary.

I found an online test for it somewhere and it was like

"Sally was born in Canada and lived there until she moved to the United States when she was thirteen. She spends summers in Canada with her aunt and uncle, but spends the rest of the year in Boston. This year, she's graduating from high school and planning on attending college. She wants to see more of the country, so her top picks for college are in California and Chicago."

"Where does Sally live during the winter?"

"Where did Sally spend her childhood?"

"Where do Sally's aunt and uncle live?"

You're not going to find as many people who read badly on a majority text platform like this.

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[–] MyDarkestTimeline01@ani.social 24 points 4 days ago

Not great. Sixth graders would be the 11-12 year old kids. It's been a while since I was in school(I'm 38) and when I was in sixth grade I was considered "advanced" in reading level due to reading Tolkien.

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 4 days ago

Sadly, yes. It is largely a consequence of two things: constant right-wing efforts to destroy public education and neoliberal profiteering. The first requires little explanation. The second is something that I only learned about because LeVar Burton (Geordie LaForge in Star Trek TNG) has produced a documentary on it and has been participating in activism to try to fix the damage.

Basically, with the neoliberal philosophy that profit is more important than anything else, education fell into the sights of profiteers. Through connections and back-room deals, schools have been forced to adopt proprietary "literacy" methods and tools that were initially developed explicitly to allow people with diminished cognitive capacity to somewhat function in society. This means that there's a whole generation that only learned how to do things like guess what a word is based on its shape, rather than understanding its phonetics or figuring out its meaning from its constituent roots.

This profiteering, as a side effect, also harms education overall as it has robbed people of their ability to engage in self-learning. Something that is only helping to cause further harm with people off-loading cognitive efforts to LLMs, and not having the skills to differentiate between when they spout pure bullshit and output something that is useful or factual.

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[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 35 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It took thirty years of cutting education spending but they are almost to a fully ignorant populace.

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[–] Wilco@lemm.ee 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yep, going to report this. It's not a meme .. it is actually fact and documentation for our eventual Idiocracy future.

Just kidding about the report of course.

[–] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

Op would be very upset if he could read this.

[–] conicalscientist@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

The podcast called Sold a Story talks about how the school systems adopted a curriculum that doesn't teach kids how to read. They are more like mimicking literacy. It gives appearances they they are reading but they aren't comprehending.

[–] FinishingDutch@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Yeah, we’ve noticed. Not that Europe is far behind I fear.

Literacy is definitely declining; people just don’t have the attention spans they used to. Between Twitter, TikTok and other brain rot, reading a book or simply a longer text just isn’t something a lot of people do.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

Well, reading and writing is a 6 millenia old technology, thus it's in dire need of replacement with AI readers /s

[–] jonesey71@lemmus.org 20 points 3 days ago

I saw that "3min read" tag on the screenshot and thought, "Not for 54% of American adults."

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Yeah we elected one in to the presidential office too

[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

If you want some light horror reading, check out /r/teachers.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Honestly, people make more of this than it is. I say that as someone whoes reading level in the 8th grade was rated "post-High School" in tests. Though IIRC, that particular test wasn't considered accurate past a 10th grade reading level or so. Suffice it to say, though, I was always rated at least a few grade levels higher than my actual grade level when it comes to reading.

If you pick up examples of post-High School writing, you'll find it's hard to read. Basically, check any abstract on a paper for a technical field. It'll be full of field-specific jargon and long sentences. Copy and paste it into a writing assistant like Hemmingway, and it will scream at you to simplify the sentence structure.

Converting to terms of Lexile level, Fellowship of the Ring has a rating of 860L. By a conversion chart, we would expect 50% of students to be able to read it by the spring of 4th grade. Even the bottom 10% of students can read it by the beginning of 10th grade.

That's a relatively hard book; harder than what most fiction asks of you. Of Mice and Men, which is on plenty of High School reading lists, only has a Lexile level of 630L. Conversely, Romeo and Juliet can go up to 1260L (though this varies depending on the editing of different editions).

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