Poor Ukraine. One side wants to kill them all and steal the land, another side wants to rape its land, not to mention bordering Belarus, Slovakia and Hungary who are the bitches of Putin. We live in a sad reality
this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2025
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One side wants to kill them all
Not that I like fascist Putin, but isn't the civilian casualty rate in Ukraine extremely low to other conflicts we've seen recently like the genocide in Gaza or the invasion of Iraq?
For now
Yes, if Russia turns to murdering civilians on the scale of Iraq or Gaza, I'll be the first to condemn that more, but it isn't the case as of now. Not that this justifies the invasion or the nationalist Russian ideology, ofc
That is the end goal. Gulag for the political dissedents, chattle slavery for the rest of the Ukranians. Best to stop russias colonial ambitions before it gets to that point.
Not really what I think the end goal is. The invasion of Ukraine is a military response to the lack of soft power of Russia to maintaining a sphere of influence otherwise, through diplomatic and economic and other means. Guess only time will tell
If it weren't for things like this.https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/ukraine-missing-children-taken-by-russia-kherson/index.html
The source of this information isn't investigative journalism, it's claims from the Ukrainian government (as stated inside the article), which is famously known to be at war with the country it's accusing of war crimes. Russian government sources claim that Ukrainians were performing ethnic cleansing of Russian Ukrainians before the invasion and they're saving them from genocide, should we take that at face value too?
The news source points to a UN report which it links. If you open the UN report, it says:
"A data collection system maintained by the Government of Ukraine indicated that 16,221 children had been deported to the Russian Federation as of the end of February 2023. The Commission has not been able to verify these figures."
I'm sorry, but there aren't investigative journalism or independent sources evidencing widespread deportation of children, best they can point to is 200 documented cases and the Ukrainian government figures.
The un hasn't given any reason to doubt these claims. They felt confident enough in them to cite them.
Not being able to verify = there is no shown proof
Not being able to verify=there is a war going on, but the data is coming from an otherwise reputable source, during a war. They felt confident in the data provided enough to speak to it.
an otherwise reputable source, during a war
Please explain to me how state propaganda is a reliable source during war
Certain countries governments have a reputation, and are considered reputable. For example Germany, is generally considered a trust worthy source of information, the united states no longer is. See how that works? Just like with people, Einstein was generally reputable and trustworthy, and Asad wasn't.
For example Germany, is generally considered a trust worthy source of information
Speak for yourself, Germany's coverage of the genocide in palestine is atrocious and there wasn't one German media that didn't replicate the "ghost of Kiev" news. You happen to trust Germany because you have a pro-western bias, Germany's information is as shit as that of the US.
Trusting a government source without further evidence on information about geopolitically charged topics is insane.
What does generally mean to you? Does it mean all the time with no errors or mistakes? The UN was taking Gazas death toll numbers as accurate despite not being able to verify all the time, I generally accepted the numbers coming from Gaza, although they were likely short. I happen to generally trust Germany because generally their information is accurate. If the UN (not Ukrainian btw) felt somewhat confident in the numbers to speak it to, then it's carries more weight. Tell me which "sources" would you trust?
I happen to generally trust Germany because generally their information is accurate
I highly distrust information from Germany as someone who lived there for 3+ years. There's a reason why there's also a wave of fascism over there.
Tell me which "sources" would you trust?
Primary sources providing evidence. Appeal to authority isn't enough evidence for me, evidence is. I didn't need to trust any particular sources that there was an ongoing genocide in Gaza because I could simply open up my phone and have 100 new different videos from that very day of kids being bombed from a variety of journalist outlets from different countries and social media accounts.
Notice how in my previous comments I denied that it's a generalised thing, not that it didn't happen occasionally. For sure a few tens, or even hundreds, of children have been sent illegally to Russia. Hell, tens of thousands of civilians have probably been murdered unlawfully in the war. My point isn't that sporadic small-scale crimes don't happen during wars, my point is that there's no evidence of generalised mass deportation of children in Ukraine by the Russian forces.
Also, bringing in children to speak their atrocity propaganda to the UN reeks of Nayirah's testimony
Of course it's always difficult counting the dead, and Russia doesn't allow any monitoring of this kind of thing in the territory it controls. But it's likely the number of civilian deaths is around double that of Gaza. The numbers for the military is likely more than double that.
Ukraine does it's best to protect it's civilian population and their soldiers wear uniforms. Hamas does not wear uniforms, and actively prevents civilians from evacuating from areas where there's combat operations. In fact having combat operations happening in populated areas was basically the point of massacring villages while taking hostages, both of which are war crimes. If you want to negotiate a prisoner release you don't massacre villages, if you want a war that minimizes civilian casualties, you don't take hostages to densely populated areas.
Hamas created a scenario to maximize civilian deaths, and it will probably never be known the true number of civilian deaths since they didn't wear uniforms so the number of Hamas dead and number of civilian deaths can't be distinguished. Israel claims half the number you see reported are Hamas, while Hamas claims it's much less.
Note the difference between a military that protects it's civilians and wears uniforms and what Hamas is doing. Larger numbers of soldiers than civilians die in Ukraine because they prioritize protecting civilians, while larger numbers of civilians than soldiers die in Gaza as fodder for their propaganda machine.
Note that Hamas is suddenly wearing uniforms as soon as a ceasefire is in effect. How often do you remember seeing them wear uniforms in combat when doing so would prevent civilian casualties? They have uniforms, they just don't wear them in combat in order to maximize confusion which results in civilian casualties.
the number of civilian deaths
I specifically talked about ratios and not about absolute numbers. Ukraine has an order of magnitude more people than Palestine, it would be surprising if there weren't more casualties overall.
Hamas does not wear uniforms, and actively prevents civilians from evacuating from areas where there's combat operations
OK, Zionist and genocide apologist.
They deliberately target schools and hospitals, so take that as you will
I'm not taking anything in any way, I'm making a statement about numbers, not about intentions
Only because Russia is failing to do what they've really wanted to do since the beginning, or did you forget Bucha.
They're still stealing children by the thousands though.
Russia is so incompetent that it fails at killing more civilians than trained personnel? Is that the argument?
The audacity to frame resource extraction as "aid" would be impressive if it weren't so transparent. Ukraine's rare earth minerals aren't collateral for loans—they’re the spoils of geopolitical brinkmanship, dressed in the rotting corpse of diplomacy.
Trump’s team operates like feudal overlords, demanding tribute from a nation under siege. Those minerals power everything from missiles to smartphones. Calling this a "reimbursement" is like mugging a drowning man and calling it debt collection.
Now they’re floating troop deployments to "guard" these assets? Please. This isn’t peacekeeping—it’s a protection racket, ensuring the extraction pipeline stays open while the propaganda machine spins conquest as charity.
Fuck, everyone has been giving us communists shit for the past 8 decades for explaining this is the exact way that imperialist powers operate in their colonies. Maybe we all will finally understand now that the Ukraine war was never a conflict of Russian expansionism vs Ukrainian national defence, but an imperialist proxy war between US and Russia?
If you're being reductive to the point where you're ignoring the importance of sovereignty and democracy, then it's fair game to reduce communism to being just about some college kids that think Che Guevara T-Shirts look cool.
So it's reductive to talk about imperialist wars, but not about "Russia want territory, Ukraine rightful defense"? Wanna talk sovereignty and democracy? We could start way back with Euromaidan. Funny how spontaneous and disorganised protests outside US-influence end up with pro-US regime changes, whereas huge protests movements lasting years such as the Occupy movement in the US, the Gilets Jeunes in France or the 15-M in Spain end up in nothing. I guess we don't question democracy and sovereignty in these instances now, do we? No complex analysis to be had there
Just tell the US they can have any resources they can liberate from Russia. We’d have tanks at Moscow in hours.
Which, seeing the treatment Ukraine is getting by the US, I assume you believe it's a bad thing right? Right?
The US only does things selfishly, so yeah. Though Russia really doesn’t have it better.
Agreed, but tanks in Moscow aren't the solution
If you thought that was a sincere suggestion, I didn’t /s nearly hard enough.
Not so much about your lack of /s, there's widespread russophobia since 2022 in the west and many people simply don't care what happens to so+called "orcs"
I have worked with many Russians in the past, they are fantastic engineers. The people are wonderful. But it’s very obvious why there is Russophobia considering they are the ones actively trying to capture land from other sovereign nations.
I don't hate Americans or English for the actions of their governments, I don't see why I should hate Russians
Does that thinking extend to german citizens during 1930-1945?
Majorly yes, I don't think these harrowing historical events are the fault of a majority of people. I'm very happy that the soviets freed Europe of Nazism, I don't celebrate the deaths of German (or any) civilians in the process. I don't think American citizens are to blame for the millions murdered in Vietnam, Korea, Laos and Cambodia.
I’m very happy that the soviets freed Europe of Nazism
The soviets didn't do it alone though, right?
Surely they didn't. England played an important role as did the lend-lease program of the US, but the USSR did most of the job (80%-ish of Nazi casualties were sustained in the eastern front) and at the greatest cost (25mn deaths).
At this point I wonder who is worse Trump or Putin.
Wasn't the US supporting a genocide until like a month ago? Is this question really only popping right now in your head?
Ukraine got used to weaken Putin and now the US sweeps in and recoups the cost for free. Ukrainians lose part of their country to Russia and hand over the minerals of the other half to America.
Imagine being Ukrainian and having died for this.
Being a US enemy is bad. Being a US ally is deadly