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Servers don’t want the system to change as they make more money with tips than they would from a “livable wage”
Former euro server here. Got a livable wage plus tips. Not the mandated kind, just the extras people would leave. That would net me 5 euros per hour above my livable wage.
Yeah definitely not arguing against earning a livable wage via being paid that livable wage by the employer. That should be the system. But sadly that isn't the system and not paying a tip in the states isn't going to do anything to change the system.
For example, the unhoused crisis is caused by the same ultra rich classes that keep tipping around. But I'm not going to pretend that the unhoused aren't people with real immediate needs. I will give them money when I can. I will vote and push for change as well. Material concerns of the moment are more important to me than strict idealism.
Yeah I'm absolutely on board and quite in favor of what you argue. The institutionalized out sourcing of wages is absurd.
I can't be against tipping as a concept, as I live in a place where it works, but the us system irks me.
But we can and should be more social. Helping oneself instead of borrowing the selfishness of the upper class.
Y'all living privileged idealogue navel-gazed lives can do what you want I guess. We here in the working class are tired, overworked, and are trying to survive the day.
You're more frustrated at people that don't leave tips over the fact you are seen as less than a person by the owners that pay a pitiful wage. Look to the people that came before you, look up Mario Savio.
The non-tippers are complicit, they patronize my job and give the owner their money, but don't think I'm deserving of any either as evidenced by them not tipping. My boss doesn't give a shit whether I'm tipped or not, and if I leave over it he'll have my replacement within the hour and the system continues.
Sure, be an ideologue all you want and "tipping is wrong!" So don't come into my store. That's the only way to make my boss feel it instead of me, if you come in, give him $20 and give me the finger for wasting time on you, yes, of course I'm mad at both of you.
So if nobody went to your store because they don’t want to tip the restaurant would close and you’d be fired.
You are being exploited by your boss. The people tipping you are subsidizing that exploitation. You want to be pissed, go be pissed at your boss or find another job.
As another user mentioned plenty of wait staff are in favour of tipping so also because of that it doesn’t change
And it’s a descriminative and unfair system. Theres plenty of data on it.
Yeah, but if people go to the store and pay my boss his money but don't tip, I'm homeless, lose my job because I can't secure even a proper shower and people don't like that when you handle their food, my old boss hires some 19yo kid to replace me, and the cycle continues. Great job, well done, fuck me and hooray continued exploitation I guess.
OR STOP GIVING MY EXPLOITER MONEY, it really isn't that hard, learn to cook for yourslelf, what're you an incel that never learned how to take care of themselves? Youtube videos my guy, "how to make a pizza," bam now you aren't subsidizing my exploitation by paying my boss who exploits me.
Yes. People can do what they want. Tips are optional, and are for good service...not to subsidize owners. If you can't afford to work in a restaurant, find something else to do for a living.
Just go eat at McDonalds then.
I haven't eaten at a McDonald's since the 90s. I refuse to support that corporation.
I just think that it's on owners to pay their staff a living wage, or for staff to realize they're not going to be able to make a decent living and move on to something where they can. If an owner can't make that work, the business wasn't strong enough to survive anyways.
I lived in Australia for a few years and think their system is far better. The only way our system is going to change is for people to reject it.
Wait you take a moral stand against McDonald's but are willing to stiff workers at restaurants and support owners that are taking advantage of them? This take makes no sense.
I tip 18%, which is more than fair.
The business keeps going, it finds another hungry, almost homeless person to exploit, and keeps making profit because people like you keep going. Put your money where your mouth is and do not patronize these places or you ARE part of the problem. The only way our system changes is if THE CUSTOMER rejects it, victim blaming the workers is frankly kinda lame.
I'm blaming the owners, not the workers. I tip 18%, which i think is more than fair.
That's the victim blame-y part, it's very "go back to your country if you don't like it here" but "meant well," however misguided.
Tipping like that definitely is fair, it means the worker at least is taken care of, but it does still buy into the system and perpetuate it (though it is much better than those that go and don't tip!!) If you were serious about changing the system you'd still have to stop going at all (which would hurt the workers, but would also hurt the owners as opposed to the entitled ones who go and don't tip, who only hurt the workers.)
Personally imo you're fine, as long as you either "don't go there" or "do tip if needed," but the truth remains that the only, only way to change the overall system starts with the customers rejecting it.
It also hurts me. I like going out and am not going to let the system stop me from doing that. I'm just not going to take any shit from anyone who thinks 18% isn't enough. It's more than enough, and service usually sucks these days anyways.
I mean yes, sometimes ideological stances require sacrifice if you want them to become reality.
But also nobody is complaining if you do tip 18%, it perpetuates the system still, yes, but at least it doesn't fuck me (the worker), even if it also doesn't fuck my boss. Can't complain about that, you're fine! Though on a personal level you must choose between making the sacrifice and perpetuating the system, at least you're currently perpetuating the system in the right way if you continue to do so, and that is genuinely fine, no shade can really be thrown "even" ("especially" imo) by the idealogues as none of them are willing to sacrifice either but they do perpetuate the system in the worst way possible.
The real complaint is those ones that don't tip and rail against it but also do their part in perpetuating it. Like, pick one.
A lot of cultures simply don't understand tipping, or wonder why they're not getting better service for it.
I think most of the pushback is because service has consistently gotten worse while tips keep getting consistently forced upwards.
Most restaurants where i live don't even have lower % options than 18% on the machines...but we're only getting 10% level service for it.
Tips aren't for service anymore...that's the issue.
For sure, but "my culture" might not understand not tipping, yet if I go to Japan it is an insult to tip, and it is me who needs to adjust to their culture, even though it makes me feel like a bad person for not tipping. Same for those who come here, either get with the goddamn program or you're the asshole, regardless of their supposed ideological superiority to the workers nice enough to serve them for literally free due to the visitors' abject lack of decorum. It's just the opposite.
You're not wrong service has gotten worse (after covid shut down many of the good ones, and customers' entitlement keeps pushing the workers' breaking point. Can you tell I used to work foodservice? Lol). Real chicken or the egg on this one IME, the customers being absolute dogshit is literally why I left.
Though, "machines?" Honestly, and I stand by all that shit I just said, if they have "machines" you probably don't need to tip there. Tip at sit down restaurants with servers not machines, delivery drivers, or clearly family run spots you like enough (my taco truck is a prime example). The only people with machines that may need it are baristas at your coffee spot (and the machines almost always have a "custom" slot for you to type in, if not avoid the place), but a counter service spot with a machine that isn't coffee or alcohol? Don't tip. Seriously don't, it'll support changing those jobs to tipped-primarily (and they currently AREN'T, DO NOT!)
When i say "machines" i mean the debit/credit machines that they hand you when you pay.
Yeah tbh at most of those you don't need to tip, they actually make a livable (debatable, but they make at least $7.25/hr instead of $2.13/hr like servers) wage (depends on state, and that $7.25 is honestly probably low and out of date, but still, back in my day..)
Honestly don't tip at most of those unless they're a local place you want to appreciate above and beyond, or are coffee. If you have doubts you totally can ask how much the job pays, pretend you're looking for one, and then act accordingly based on that info (whatever that'd mean in context).
You're good dude, you already seem to be going above and beyond tbh.
This is generally false. Most waiters would see more consistent income with fewer instances of subjective nonsense like ideologues who don't believe they have to follow the basic cultural rules of the place in which they visit. There is an exceptional subset of waiters that would make less for sure but they are in a minority.
I put livable wage in quotation marks because it wouldn’t actually be a livable wage. The pay would likely be 1-2x minimum wage which is still not livable in most places
People most definitely want to be paid by their employer rather than tips. This isn't a bottom up movement keeping tipping in place. It is ultra rich people invested in the restaurant industry that keep it around. The same people that use the National Restaurant Association to effectively lobby against minimum wage hikes to meet that "livable wage" and pro-unionization regulation.
Not once you consider healthcare, taxes, and social security.
The presence of a livable wage doesn’t affect any of those though?
The employer still pays FICA on tipped revenue, and paying for insurance has nothing to do with their wage