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'The Red States, We're Going to Hit Hard': Canadian Politicians Vow to Make MAGA Pay for Trump's Trade War (www.commondreams.org)
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[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 62 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

American here. I love my country.

But they should absolutely turn the screws.

Canada has always been a good friend to the US, both in peace and in wartime. When we had wildfires Canada sent us aircraft, crews, supplies. When we were at war in Iraq and Afghanistan Canada sent us some of the best sniper teams anywhere. Canada has always been a peacetime friend and trade partner and we exchange a lot of goods, services, and tourism in both directions.

And then we decide to fuck them over for no reason. We spent 3-4 decades offshoring every bit of American manufacturing and willingly, gleefully, built ourselves a giant trade imbalance because doing so increased shareholder value. Now we realize that might be a bad thing so what do we do? We fuck over our friends, one of the few countries that stood by us through thick and thin. Canada has done nothing to deserve this.

If I were a Canadian, I'd be right fucking pissed (politely of course) that our 100+ year friend is doing this. And quite frankly, I'd be right.

So yeah, while I want my country to succeed, in this instance we deserve to fail and we should fail. Canada deserves better than this.

[–] PhoenixDog@lemmy.world 6 points 3 hours ago

If I were a Canadian, I'd be right fucking pissed (politely of course) that our 100+ year friend is doing this. And quite frankly, I'd be right.

I genuinely hope we cease all trade with you entirely. You as a nation can no longer be trusted, no matter what happens over the next few years. The fact this happened in the first place is an inexcusable failure on the part of every American.

[–] Jarix@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

They are too chicken shit to actually make a strong move though. They will bluster a lot a lot stopping these things but will cave as soon as someone says hey want to try again to talk about this?

Ford is a corrupt POS and Carney is about as predictable as every banker ever has been. We don't have strong leadership willing to actually make a commitment to Canadians.

As as sad as depressing as that is, we are better off than the alternative that was Pierre Polievre

[–] Yamees@lemmy.ca 7 points 18 hours ago

I'm inclined to agree, because some of the major consequences that should happen need to go through Alberta's energy market and the bought and paid for traitor Danielle Smith, whom Carney still refuses to treat with anything other than kid gloves.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 35 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Just goes to show Canada is the nicest place: despite all the bs we’re shoveling their way, they’re still acting as friends, trying to help us past our mental breakdown without harming the rest of us

[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

We are not happy with you, we are being nice but we are not happy with you. Most of us want to burn your Whitehouse again like back in 1812.

Lots of damage has been done and I would say there is more coming from your orange mussolini.

The fact that there isn't 100k people in front of the Whitehouse protesting daily at this point tells us your population doesn't care about how your country is changing.

We would move away from you if we could because you have betrayed our good nature.

You cant absolve what has happened by pretending it hasn't happened.

We will never be the "51st state" but maybe we will liberate you one day and you can become Canadian.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 24 minutes ago

Most of us want to burn your Whitehouse again like back in 1812.

White house was burned down by the British army. We don't need to burn it down, the next riot when Trump loses will do that.

[–] PlaidBaron@lemmy.world 13 points 18 hours ago

I mean, I dont buy anything from the states anymore. Blue or red state, I dont care. I aint buying it. Sucks but its an economic war.

Also I dont want to get sick from your rotten-ass produce.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 13 points 19 hours ago

They're the best friend we ever had and I like them a hell of a lot more than red states these days

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 23 points 23 hours ago

Oh my god stop im at work someone mark this NSFW holy shit. Love it when tops talk sexy tho

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 136 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

75% of Canadians supported Carney backing out of the trade deal. This is despite the fact that it will cause massive economic hardship to Canada to accept these tariffs.

Canadians are pissed, and are willing to accept economic hardship in order to stand up to a bully.

For decades Canada has just accepted whatever the US has demanded. For example, Canada has aligned its copyright laws to match US laws, which Hollywood was demanding. It has accepted that Canadians installing a Canadian-made app on their phones have to pay a 30% cut to an American company.

This was because the US, in exchange, was giving Canada free access to the American market. Canadian potash, lumber, energy, etc. could all be sold to the US without tariffs. Now Trump has reneged on that deal.

Carney has promised counter-tariffs, but I want to see a real trade war. Fuck the US copyright laws. Fuck the DMCA. Fuck American printers that won't allow you to use your own ink. Fuck US tractors that can only be repaired by their US manufacturer. Canada should not only refuse to honour US intellectual property, I want Americans to travel to Canada to get their phones unlocked, to pay Canadians online for software to de-DRM their printers. What's the downside? The US will counter with tariffs? Done that. The US will try to cut Canada's access to Netflix off? We have bittorrent here.

Americans keep talking about this being a David vs Goliath fight, but for an ultra-religious country, they sure don't seem to remember how that bible story ended.

Edited to add: In the early days of the USA it was a pirate nation, in many ways. There were Americans acting as privateers, basically pirates who were protected / supported by the US. The US also was infamous for ignoring copyrights on authors from Europe.

I don't think it's very likely that Canada is going to be brave enough to repeal the copyright laws that the US forced Canada into adopting. But, maybe, a 21st century "privateer" is possible. What if Carney walked over to the head of the RCMP and off the record put the word out that the RCMP was to stop cooperating with the FBI on any actions against Canadians accused of violating US IP laws. What if the government decriminalized laws against circumventing copyright protection.

For a long while before marijuana was legalized, it was decriminalized. It was pretty common to see people smoking pot on the street, which was technically illegal, and a cop would just walk by and ignore it. But, that was all done in an above-board way. I think it's entirely possible something like that could be done through back channels with nothing written down.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 12 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

allowing our pharmaceutical companies to make any us drug ignoring patents/licenses would be pretty brutal.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 8 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

And many Americans would love Canada if Canadians would sell them those drugs at costs far below what the American Pharma industry was charging.

That would be a great move, piss off the US pharma companies while getting on the good side of individual Americans.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

if Canadians would sell them those drugs at costs far below what the American Pharma industry was charging.

The mail order pharmacies were charging Americans less than they would pay at home - and It caused a few shortages of some medications for Canadian patients.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 hours ago

Yeah, in a trade war there are casualties. Maybe the Canadian government could do more to increase supply to those privateer mail order "pharmacies", or something.

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[–] boonhet@lemmy.zip 15 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Economic hardship is coming either way, the deal wasn't fair and Trump would reneg either way. Good on Canadians for not trying appeasement.

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 1 points 9 hours ago

Offer a good deal to California and New York, where those states create an universal drugcare program, officially powered by Canadian supplies. On the condition that these states are very vocal about why they got Canadian Drugcare, and why the Red States are getting zip.

[–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 9 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

In the early days of the USA it was a pirate nation, in many ways. There were Americans acting as privateers, basically pirates who were protected / supported by the US.

Oh, the year was 1778
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
A letter of marque came from the king
To the scummiest vessel I've ever seen

God damn them all, I was told
We'd cruise the seas for American gold
We'd fire no guns, shed no tears
Now I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier
The last of Barrett's privateers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWMSnro18b0

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 3 points 18 hours ago

Yes!

Barrett, the Antelope and other elements of the song are fictional, but "Barrett's Privateers" is full of authentic details of privateering during the American Revolution, which in Nova Scotia was dominated by privateer warfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett%27s_Privateers

At the outbreak of the American Revolution, many Nova Scotians were New England-born and were sympathetic to the American Patriots. This support slowly eroded over the first two years of the war as American privateers attacked Nova Scotian villages and shipping to try to interrupt Nova Scotian trade with the American Loyalists still in New England. During the war, American privateers captured 225 vessels either leaving or arriving at Nova Scotia ports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Scotia_in_the_American_Revolution

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 9 points 22 hours ago

25% of Canadians need to move to a trailer park in Orlando.

[–] Soggy@lemmy.world 34 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The religious people here don't actually read their book, they get told what to think.

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[–] weps@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm calling it Trump's inside-trade-war

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 5 points 21 hours ago

Does he even commit insider trading anymore? Once you accept outright bribes, laundered bitcoin, and shakedowns of both corps and other countries, insider trading seems like the hard way of doing things

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 49 points 1 day ago

make them pay by constantly airing epstein related news, and investigation. this gets under trump skin quite often.

[–] Arancello@aussie.zone 76 points 1 day ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (11 children)

The thing that really gets me is americans still believe they have something to offer Canadians. For heaven’s sake, america is now at 29 on the Transparency International ranking of Corrupt Countries. This list ranks countries on the basis of public bribery, misuse of public funds, abuse of public office for personal gain, nepotism in civil service, and state capture.

Think about that. The usa is more corrupt than the UAE. Why would anyone or any country want to drop to the level of the usa? There is nothing appealing about the usa anymore. The food is poison, the inequality is off the scale, the corruption allowing tech bros and billionaires to buy government, etc, etc, etc.

america has been sleep walking into the new slavery and cheer when they get beaten by another corrupt regime.

Edit addition. Lots of comments mention that the data is a couple of years old, and that more recent would show a much worse position. i suspect the comments are correct, but this is all that’s publicly available.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 19 hours ago

america is now at 29 on the Transparency International ranking of Corrupt Countries.

number 29 with a bullet.

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 4 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

americans still believe they have something to offer Canadians

The US offers access to the US banking system, and protection of your maritime trade. It also does not like countries developing their own banking systems or overland trade routes (the hostility towards the Brazilian payment system is a recent example). This is something you'll need to deal with (as in, build and defend an alternative, or join an existing system) if you want to become more independent.

[–] Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Maybe I misunderstand, but can you explain what you mean about the banking system? Is it more for international transactions?

Canada has a banking system and our own payment system for consumer transactions called Interac. Canadian debit cards work differently than US ones, (or at least they used to). I worked at a tourist spot one summer and remember the US customers getting annoyed their cards didn't work here. The transactions on the Canadian cards were real-time so overdraft wasn't as much of a concern if you were using your card in a store. It would just get declined. Pre-authorized transactions and cheques are different, of course.

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

can you explain what you mean about the banking system? Is it more for international transactions?

It works on multiple levels:

  1. Your citizens having accounts in US banks.
  2. Your banks being dependent on US software.
  3. Your banks relying on a US backend for domestic (person to person or customer to business or business to business) transactions.
  4. Same as 3, but for international transactions.
  5. Your citizens, businesses and banks using the US dollar for international transactions.

Each of these is a little tax or subsidy you pay to the US. They also expose you to US sanctions. So the more of these you can do locally, the better. In practice, you want to completely avoid 2 and 3, and minimise 1, 4 and 5.

our own payment system for consumer transactions called Interac

Good. You need to make sure everyone uses it. Make it easy to set up, remove any usage fees (at least temporarily), and make it the default option offered by banks. You can also add features like payment apps and integration with public transport / ride-sharing services.

[–] Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online 4 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Thanks for the response but I wonder if maybe there is a misunderstanding.

Canadians generally don't have American bank accounts. Businesses who do business in the states have them and I'm sure some individuals do but it's often about how hard it is to do financial transactions in the US with via a Canadian bank. I was involved in an org that made one large payment to the US each year and they set up an account to do it because it wasn't worth the hassle otherwise. The US has way more restrictions than one might expect lol.

When I was asking about international transactions I meant more like country to country or something, not individual consumers or businesses.

Good. You need to make sure everyone uses it.

This also makes me wonder if we are talking about different things. Interac isn't optional. It's the only way to use your bank account to pay for things via a card. It is run by the banks and has been around since the 80s.

As far as I understand the Canadian banking infrastructure is independent of the US or any other country. A lot of the software is custom or even developed in house. (I know a few people who worked or work for banks as developers.)

You can also add features like payment apps and integration with public transport / ride-sharing services.

Yeah, this all exists and has for a very long time. Canada was ahead of the states in terms of some of that stuff because we have way fewer banks and tighter regulations so it was easier. I remember visiting family in the 2000s and being shocked people wrote cheques. I don't think I had seen someone pay with a cheque in a store before. 1

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago

Ah then you're in a better place than I thought. You've already solved issues 2 and 3. Some Canadian people / businesses have US bank accounts (#1) for ease of doing business, but that's fine. Now your main concern would be international transactions (#4) and dollar dependency (#5). China and the EU have international payments systems that you might be able to use. You can also use Euro / Yuan for those transactions, and gradually replace / supplement the dollar with these currencies for your foreign reserve.

[–] phx@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago

Yeah which is why I REALLY hope the Carney government is planning to put a stopper on the proposed sale of Moneris to US private equity. That idea was a disaster for Canadians BEFORE this current bullshit.

[–] PhAzE@lemmy.ca 3 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Before any of that, canada needs to build a proper oil pipe from Alberta to ontario that does not cross into the US. Thats a choke point for it right now.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 22 minutes ago

Alberta does not have the refining capacity for that.

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[–] meco03211@lemmy.world 200 points 1 day ago (30 children)

Positive reinforcement works as well! Gotta give blue states something good to entice fence sitters. For instance, you could annex Minnesota.

Sincerely

A Minnesotan

[–] criss_cross@lemmy.world 2 points 13 hours ago

Maybe Annex Illinois too while you’re at it.

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[–] Tango@piefed.ca 2 points 18 hours ago

Don't forget the purple states

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