this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2025

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278

Giving Up on Element & Matrix.org (xn--gckvb8fzb.com)

submitted 2 days ago by mesamunefire@piefed.social to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 37 points 1 day ago (7 children)

We really need to stop abandoning existing foss projects and thinking a whole new thing needs to be invented. Free and open-source software is not a product, it doesn't abide by the same rules and relationships that proprietary tech does.

It's more organic. It's also a commons that we can continue to draw on, and reshape. If I recall correctly, there were something like three different vector graphic editors from the same codebase before Inkscape managed to be the one that gained traction.

Matrix isn't perfect, but abandoning it just to reinvent it all over again just because some people really need a thing that works like Discord, even though Discord is absolute hot garbage; is just going to re-create all the same problems. Matrix today is better than it was two years ago. And Matrix in a year will be better from now.

[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

It's gonna be like 100 years before Matrix and the clients are in a good place at this rate. It only seems to be getting worse right now with more fragmented clients and servers with more and more spam issues, and the performance just keeps getting worse too.

Even their very own Element app is being retired and replaced by Element X which is missing a ton of features.

They still don't have any of the features people coming from Discord/TS/Mumble are expecting like voice chat rooms, push to talk, or streaming to a room. They don't have the features Telegram users are expecting like stickers, threads inside groups, read only channels, and so on..

The vast majority of users have no reason to switch since it's nothing like the apps they are used to. And it's buggy and slow on top of that.

[–] Vinstaal0@feddit.nl 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I agree with you, my main issue with Matrix is that it is a pain to self-host at the moment.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Isn't everything a pain to selfhost?

[–] Vinstaal0@feddit.nl 1 points 3 hours ago

Honestly, setting up things using Docker Compose is generally a question of copying and pasting and editing the file locations.

The moment you need SSL and/or a reverse proxy it becomes a bit more complex, but once you set up a reverse proxy once you can generally expand that to your other applications.

Something like a Synology nas makes it very easy and to some extend even the Truenas apps are kinda easy.

[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Most things are super easy, like 2-5 minutes of set up and it's running and working.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Such as?

[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Most of the stuff I run on my server is just a basic docker-compose.yaml file and it's up and running in a minute or two. Some random examples:

Immich
Peertube
Pinchflat
Vaultwarden
Mealie

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

So, going from Mealie's instructions, having to learn how to work with Docker, whatever underlying server you're working with, and a database system is easy 2-5 minutes?

[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

You need to learn some Docker stuff initially for sure, but the underlying OS can be anything including Windows which is why Docker is nice.

The database for Mealie is part of the app already and is handled automatically, with the SQLite docker-compose file they provide.

[–] kxzaon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 21 hours ago

https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy

Honestly, with this, it is easier than ever. Great documentation !

[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Can't agree on Discord being hot garbage, unless you're specifically talking about how monetisation has creeped its way into it.

However, with Vencord I don't have to see any of that shit, while also having a far more functional and feature rich client.

Of course, a FOSS, potentially federated alternative would be greatly preferred, but it must have at least the basic functions of Discord.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 14 hours ago

A large part of it is the obnoxious monetization and general enshittification and privacy violations, but that's not all. There are a number of usability annoyances. If I've been away from Discord for a little while and try to continue where I left off in a thread on a server, it never properly preserves where I last stopped reading. There are often times when I get notifications but it won't actually take me to the relevant message, and that can even result in situations where the ping just gets lost entirely.

Then there's things inherent in Discord's design and how people use it. It's become a tool that people have decided is a convenient replacement for chats, wikis, and forums - but it's a shittier version of all of those things. Pinned messages are such a tucked away and half-baked feature. The fact that people are using Discord both to organize and discuss projects - as well as using that same space to host documentation or other critical knowledge-bases has made information significantly less accessible. I don't want to join someone's niche club just to "learn more." If I want to read something I would rather just go to a wiki on the actual open web.

Discord is hot garbage ultimately for the same reasons as Facebook. It's trying to be everything to everyone, and dropping a black box on the open web by doing so. It's just another example of people trading convenience for actually using the appropriate tools for the kind of job they're trying to do.

[–] poloqualle@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago

None of the popular/successful apps are bad.

They usually have great ui/ux and are being actively developed or at least maintained. Think google maps, apple wallet, or of course discord. What is hot garbage, however, is having to accept massive privacy violations if you use them. Vencord unfortunately does not mitigate that. :(

[–] Blemish5236@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I agree. We should all abandon Matrix and implement any missing features into IRC or maybe XMPP

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 day ago

Sure, go for it. Though XMPP has so many features at this point, it might already have Matrix, irc, Discord, and email for all we know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What I don't like about Matrix is that it's most visible homeserver and client implementations feel like they are being developed as a product by New Vector Ltd., not a community project.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

How so?

[–] VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

New Vector forked the matrix foundation owned projects for synapse, dendrite, and element, and pulled all their devs, changing the license and bringing them under closer control. The foundation repos are now archived, and only the new vector owned ones are being actively developed. They sell an enterprise license for their element server suite that, at least according to their copy, seems more performant, and also offers admin tools that the free version lacks.

If you want to run a public instance that allows registration, you pretty much need some kind of external admin tool for moderation.

It's of course still better than pretty much all proprietary options, but also quite some room for improvement.

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[–] szymon@programming.dev 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

This url is amazing lol

[–] JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz 4 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

It's マリウス.com but the "internationalized domain name" system pynycodes it to gibberish to prevent spoofing urls using lookalike characters.

Like https://xn--mzon-43db.com/ is аmаzon.com. Those are cyrillic lowercase 'а', not 'a'.

[EDIT] The blog itself actually has a great article explaining it.

[–] shiroininja@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I don’t know why people don’t use irc, I’m in it daily and it’s busier than Matrix, and even busier than some Discord servers I’m in. And there’s mobile clients. There’s even way less bots and spam

[–] blobchoice@feddit.uk 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I think IRC wins by being around the longest, but also being dead simple to set up and use.

I tried using Matrix and it just honestly frazzled my head a little. I know it's just a few extra steps to get registered, but it honestly feels like a few extra bits of friction to what amounts to trying to join a big social circle.

[–] shiroininja@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

I had such a pain trying to get a consistent client working on mobile.

[–] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I think the barrier to entry is kind of high, you need to use a bouncer to see what happened while you were offline.

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I've used matrix for a year now and it works, but it seems slow.

Lots of people tried to self-host it and reported it uses too much RAM for what it does. (It allegedly uses 1GB or more of ram even if it only has 1-2 users)

Efficient software is a must. Software must not waste resources simply because "they are there". That's my biggest gripe with matrix.

Disclaimer: i've not tried to host matrix myself, so i could be wrong here.

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

Matrix 2.0 is much faster, but seems like they've been building it for a decade.

The app is out, but still no Spaces support; which is what makes it a competitor to Discord.

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 7 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Its running about 1GB for me and my server setup. It spikes a bit if there is a lot going on, but it can get low than that when its just idling. Its not terrible, but given irc and other clients which take MB for RAM...its a bit of a hog-ish.

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