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I mean the world would be a much better place if they were only lying. Unfortunately not.
Downvoting not because the topic is unimportant but because the new study is run by this news agency without publishing their questions or methodology. That seems like running for a headline with little concern for accuracy or scientific methods. I could be wrong but until they are more open we don't know
Here is a related study with clearer methodology and survey questions, but it does bundle countries in its age cohort breakdown:
Downvoting not because the topic is unimportant but because the new study is run by this news agency
Which "news agency" are you referring to?
I've had the lies bestowed upon me twice. So I can vouch 100% to this being a truth.
More than 17% of all Australians agree feminism should be resisted with violence.
This stat in itself is wild. 1 in 6 Australians think feminists should be physically attacked. Who are these psychopaths? Which part of our society has let us down so badly and how do we fix it?
Misogyny is certainly a huge issue among young men.
I'm not sure about this research though. It's always concerning when they don't publish the actual data and questions et cetera.
Perhaps most alarming: roughly 40% of boys aged 13 to 17 agreed that women lie about domestic and sexual violence.
This one really, really depends on the question. Both men and women often lie and say that their partner doesn't hit them. This is pretty well known actually. You'd have to be pretty naive to think it doesn't happen.
Occasionally I'm sure that both men and women do lie and say that their partner does hit them, for a variety of complex reasons. An acquaintance of mine, a woman, signed a declaration to say that her partner hit her and then during court proceedings she admitted that was a false statement. Uh oh. Anyhow, it's certainly a thing that happens.
Does that mean all women who claim to be victims of domestic abuse are liars? Certainly not. But are lies told about domestic violence? Of course.
Support for violence to resist feminism was highest among adolescent boys (28%), followed closely by adolescent girls (21%).
This is also curious. Obviously alarming, but how does one use violence to resist feminism? I'm genuinely confused as to what is meant by this. If you had asked 15 year old me, not really knowing what feminism is, I would have assumed it meant some kind of armed uprising of women, and yeah I would have said that in that context violence is ok.
Some respondents justified violence in the private sphere. If a woman disobeys in the home, a man should be able to control her with violence.
I notice that this fiery little truth bomb is tempered to "some respondents". How many is some? I guess 2 at least.
Again, misogyny is a huge problem. It would be extraordinarily difficult to be a female teacher. My son is too young to have encountered this stuff but it's definitely on my mind as we navigate the coming years. However, I think this article is intended to be incendiary rather than tease out the nuance revealed by their "research".
Absolutely, I was so frustrated that I couldn't find the data. They didn't show their working so all I have to go on in terms of believing them is their reputation.
Wait, its a study by the news agency the conversation? Yeah.. I'm pretty skeptical of the quality
This was a preview summary of the data that's awaiting publication by the University of Melbourne. It covered 1,100 people aged 13-17, and has been written by some Professor of Educational Psychology & Learning, Faculty of Education, The University of Melbourne.
Right so that's who did the research but it doesn't show the results or their methodology. These are super important things to know!
Read the comments in this thread, read this:
"Social research has shown boys and men increasingly feel alienated, humiliated or uncertain about their place in the world."
We just need to call young men stupid one more time guys and gender equality will be achieved. No wonder they feel they're being lied to.
The number of people jumping in to call adolescent boys morons for having a slightly higher response rate to a very poorly framed question is ridiculous.
The idiots here are the people who wrote the survey.
Of course women lie about domestic violence.
They lie to protect themselves. They lie out of fear.
Some women, though a vanishingly small minority, lie to weaponise the legal system against their partner.
Labelling this acknowledgment of reality, which has nuance to it, as extremist is just going to make more young men hostile to feminism.
Yeah from how it has been worded "has there ever been a woman that lies about sexual assault" is a valid interpretation of the prompt and unsurprisingly anyone interpreting it that way will answer "yes, absolutely." Who knows how many of those people actually harbour misogynistic beliefs though.
Training boys to be douchebags is why this is happening.
Yeah they're being courted by the far right because the far right aren't calling them idiots. Really not that hard to grasp.
The far right are calling them idiots which is the weird thing. You ever pay attention to how those influencers speak to them? They basically neg these kids.
Good point, I would be interested in learning more about that. I feel like it may be because the insult is always a precursor to their actual message. For example "you're a loser with no girlfriend, but it's because women only respect alpha males. Here's how you become one..." It uses their insecurity to sell them misogyny and right wing ideology. I think that's structurally different to and mentally easier to accept than how a man might be insulted from a left wing perspective. Example: "you're a loser with no girlfriend because you're an incel who hates women."
Objectively the left wing one is closer to the truth and heeding its advice would be more likely to socialise them and put them on the path of finding love and companionship, but it's pretty obvious to see which of the two a young inexperienced and insecure man would be more likely to follow.
I think your intuition is 100% right, there. It's always easier to hear "it's not your fault" and they know this.
Just remember, folks, divide & conquer is the oldest trick in the book.
They want us fighting the culture wars so we don’t fight the class war.
I genuinely question if this is some sort of trend and not just how it has always been.
Cuz 40% of teenage boys being idiots seems kind of timeless. Definitely lines up with the numbers we're seeing in adult men.
Right from the start I will state I know the plural of anecdote isn't evidence. But I have a friend who has given up teaching year 11/12 athletic development and now teaches grade 7 pe. Primary reason is the mysoginistic shit she had to put up with from the boys who felt their gender made them better at anything sports related than her. She would compete in triathlon in her spare time with all the training & commitment that entails, and yet the podgy, vaping 18yo man children would tell jokes with each other about how she should go back to the kitchen "where she belongs".
When we were discussing this amongst a group that included 3 other female teachers every one of them agreed they are seeing more of that sort of crap every year. My guess would be all the Manosphere brainrot is having an effect. Couple that with kids around that age feeling the urge to be as edgy as possible...
I have noticed once or twice that my sons have started talking that way due to a combination of online and peer influence and I have stepped in to disabuse them of the notion that their chromosomes make them special or superior. But it's the world they live in and I pity the kids without a parent who is keeping any eye on them.
The concerning thing to me is not the numbers themselves but the way kids with no other obvious connections to hate (e.g. my father is a wife-beating neo-Nazi) are developing these belief systems through unrestricted exposure to the internet. It's part of a much bigger problem that includes things like religious extremism and racism. In many cases they aren't going out of their way to find these rabbit holes, either. Social media algorithms recommend Andrew Tate type shit and then bombard their feed with even more of that stuff after the first watch, and adults would never know until the kid gets to the point where it's developed into a core life philosophy for them and is affecting their real world behaviour. This can happen at any age, of course, but it's just sadder to me when it's young, impressionable minds that are being taken advantage of.
The amount of women who lie about violence against them is probably a lot higher than that, and the lie is that it's not happening to them.
Had me in the first half.
Okay so what are the real numbers on what proportion of women lie about domestic or sexual violence? What proportion of claims are fabricated?
The evidence presented to the South Australian Royal Commission found that false reports of sexual or domestic violence are rare, likely under about 5% of reported cases, and the Commission treats the belief that false allegations are common as a misconception not supported by research.
I don’t think I’ve seen a study with solid methodology break 5%, and it’s usually in the 1-2% range.
Seems like a nearly impossible number to prove. I would assume they are only counting cases where the accusations can be shown to be false (which will always be a much smaller number than the ones where the truth is simply unknown) and cases where the accuser recants (which will also be a smaller number and will include some women who had been telling the truth). It seems no more valid than the opposite extreme of assuming all accusations are false unless you can prove them true.
But what's the alternative? Forcing every case into true or false no matter how little information you have to go on? Looking only at cases with overwhelming evidence one way or the other and pretending the rest don't exist?
And that's without getting into questions about things like unreported cases, or cases where part of the story checks out and part of it doesn't. Are we only looking at formal complaints or are we including accusations that are only spread socially?
The whole question is vague and surrounded by assumptions. It's like asking if aliens are real. The likely answer is going to depend heavily on whether you interpret that to mean "does any form of life exist elsewhere in the universe" as opposed to "are little grey guys practicing proctology on us?"
I don't think that a poll which indicates that one in five girls supports violence to resist feminism should be interpreted without any reservations, as this article seems to be doing. The number of adolescents who support endorsing violence in order to mess with uptight pollsters is apparently quite high...
As for lying - it's a matter of fact that people, including women making accusations of serious crimes, sometimes lie. Maybe there's more to that question than is presented in the article?