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The minute you have kids it's no longer about you and your journey and it's all about them. There are enough humans already.
Ew.
Which part? I agree with both. If you decide to have a kid, you should do your best to be there for them and help them be the best that they can be. You don't really get to stay in bed late anymore if the kid is hungry. You have to do what's best for them, not what you want anymore.
As for the "too many humans" part, I don't really feel ready for a kid but if I were, I'd rather adopt. I don't need the kid to look like me and that way you make the world a little better.
The anti-natalism is the part I think is gross. Not only is it bad science, but it's fuelling extremism such as the bombing of fertility clinics. There's a difference between saying "I'd prefer to adopt" and "There are enough humans already".
Okay, yeah, I see what you mean. I was thinking on the scale of this thread not the whole sociological perspective. And you're right, they were probably not thinking of adoption like I was. Altho to link it to a guy who endorses the forced extinction of all life on Earth is a bit of a stretch, imo. Those people don't care about overpopulation... they would think that even if there were only 100 million of us on earth.
There's a difference between saying that more people should use contraceptives and promoting genocide, imo.
I just think it speaks to a pervasive and anti-science opinion that's taken over what are otherwise progressive spaces. Even in the replies to my comment someone is conflating my opinion with being fine with climate change and mass extinctions. Anti-natalism is also often tied to racism. Or has foundations in the capitalist status quo, excusing food wastage, like we don't have more than enough land to feed everyone on the planet while people starve.
Yeah, that's fair. We need better education across the board. Should be everyone's main focus.
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone @nyctre@lemmy.world
The second a human is brought to this world, they got "duties" imposed unto them. Duties to solve problems they never asked, such as their own survival.
While they're still a kid, if lucky enough, they'll be sustained by those who are parenting them. As soon as they inevitably get to their adulthood, they'll begin to be on their own.
So, supposing they want to eat (after all, we all know how "optional" is for living beings to eat, a comfort luxury of sorts), they'll be required to "purchase" the food, and to achieve this endeavour, they'll be required to get what humans call as "money". To get this "money", they'll be required to serve someone else, but they'll need to "apply" for serving. They'll be required to lie while they apply (if asked "Why do you want to work here?", answering the obvious "so I can buy food and eat so I don't die of starvation" is a no-no). If they get "blessed" with a job, they'll need to continue lying, and if they lie as expected, they'll afford to get some of the said "money".
So now they can finally eat food, right? Not so fast: they'll need to pay the rent, they'll need to pay the government, they'll need to pay the corporations (utility bills, internet, etc, because they need those things in order to continue having a job as electricity runs their internet which allows them to use the "money" they were "blessed" with), and only then they can go to a store and hopefully find food to buy with the remaining money (not before paying for getting to the store and paying to pay).
No, they can't simply hunt-gather like all the other gazillion species in the surface of this Pale Blue Dot: hominids are godlike, we're not animals, we sent rockets to the space and we invented subscription-based food! So they must "buy" food and "pay" for shelter, they must "belong to" and "serve", and they must do whatever the society, government and corporations requires them to do.
And they'll be shrugged off whenever they dare to complain about serfdom: "everyone does this".
They can't leave, they can't opt-out. They'll be stuck here until Lady Scythebearer inevitably comes, which is often a moment of agony that could've been avoided but it wasn't by those who decided to pull them into existence. They'll also have similar agony (mourning) as they watch people around them being reaped as well, fearing Her while the society around them exploits their fear, preprogrammed as the deepest of instincts, to keep them serving society, or else... 💀
All this to achieve what, exactly? Human legacy, which will evaporate as soon as the Earth gets engulfed by its own star? Well, maybe humans can prevent Red Giant Sol someday, and with enough human serfdom, Big Freeze can also be prevented so humans can perpetuate their Kafkaesque system.
So yeah, you're right: it's really gross to keep someone from having to endure the suffering from a non-consented existence. More cogs to the machine!
If you're going to be this pessimistic about simply existing as a human being, it's worth noting that this is absolutely false. There are plenty of ways to opt-out permanently, and some of them are even peaceful.
Less darkly, there are communes and mutual aid communities and the like. Some even arguably self-sufficient.
Beyond that, if you truly feel existence is that fucking bleak, do you really think it helps to spread this shit to people who might otherwise be happily ignorant to it? Or are you content just making the collective experience of existence worse by putting this out into the world? Explicitly desiring to bring others down with you into the pit because you haven't grown enough to find life worth living and enjoying anyway.
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Yes, there are. Yes, they might be nice places for a while. But no, they're likely to not hold as permanent havens.
Because if you zoom out, you might notice how this world is getting increasingly ominous as the days pass.
First: climate change. There's nowhere safe in this world from the environmental consequences of Industrial Revolution. Temps have been rising, wet-bulb hot, hurricanes have been getting stronger, sea level rising is risking entire countries, many are trying to flee from coastal places and islands that'll inevitably get underwater. It's already happening.
Then, tech. Things are getting more and more reliant on digital walled gardens, and the old ways of doing things (e.g. cash, barter) are getting more and more forgotten and even criminalized.
There's no way a commune can keep "sovereign" for long under lobbied jurisdictions, except if we're talking about something akin to a Sealand Principality (good luck trying to keep sovereignty on international waters).
Oh, thanks for en-grandeur-ing me, but I'm just nobody, a ghost wandering through this cyberspace. Believe me: my voice is a drop in the ocean. I'm not that important as your phrasing suggest. I'm simply too weird, and my language often feels highly extraterrestrial to anybody. If you see my comment history, you'll notice this.
Also... on "being happily ignorant to [reality]". Sometimes I wish I was, I'm quite envious of this ability. It must be nice seeing the world without knowing how our senses deceive us (René Descartes), how people around us uses psychology tricks to pull us into a sticky and hidden spiderweb of social compliance (Derren Brown), how humans are their own wolves (Hobbes), and so on.
But here's the catch: "Not seeing" and/or "not knowing" doesn't imply "not happening". You don't see your own bodily cells, yet there are countless cells of yours undergoing apoptosis right now as part of natural biology. Reality doesn't give a nought if we're unaware of it, it happens nonetheless!
An ostrich can bury its head under the sand the deepest it can, maybe deeper than Mariana Trench, but the rain still falls over it as soon as it starts raining just because "physics" (force of gravity).
And I can't help but see the storm approaching at the horizon, and it doesn't look good: from climate change to ever-increasing power grip of Big Techs (to the extent that they now got thousands of those funny chunks of metal flying above our heads everywhere around this globe), all the way to a blatant repetition of the same errors, rehearsing history over and over again, partly due to this exact mentality of "happily ignoring" the surrounding obvieties, so the only thing that we end up learning from history books is that we can't learn from history books. Yep, ignorance is a bliss!
Look man, I get it. The world is heading to hell in a hand basket, and in a lot of ways accelerating towards it.
But there's a difference between awareness and... I guess feeling the "doom" of all of it constantly. Existing with that weight constantly pushing down on you. At least part of that is a choice.
Letting the weight of all of this impact you constantly is not a virtue. Do what you can to push back the oncoming waves where you can. Don't beat yourself up for not being able to hold back everything. And enjoy the joy and beauty where you can find them.
Living your life bent out of shape about things you can't do anything about is just wasting what little time you have, and wasting time while things are comparatively better than they're likely to be later.
And I get the need to speak out about all of it. But it doesn't help. What helps is getting involved with stuff locally, being active in local politics (to a degree, the rot and shitty lying politicians exist on local scales too). Doing what you can. Trying to discard the worry and upset about what you can't. Try to influence those close to you to do the same.
It could be argued that there are already too many humans
*taps the sign*
Ya but it could be argued that there are too many humans already
Please, do explain the argument then?
https://youtu.be/mgS1Lwr8gq8
*taps the sign*
My last response was somewhat facetious, but saying it can't be argued that humans have kind of fucked up the planet is entirely incorrect. Climate change and mass extinctions come to mind.
Also, for whatever reason it seems that if you get enough humans together, they are going to elect a pedophile to represent them.
Who said that?
Is this America-centrism? 💁♀️
You did.
I'm not American, but yes Donald Trump is a great example. 💁 (God I hate that emoji)
Whereabouts did I say "it can't be argued that humans have kind of fucked up the planet", I'm struggling to find that in my comments.
Also, good. 🙋♀️
My job as a parent is to make sure my kids are healthy, emotionally balanced, and self-sufficient around the age of 18. With the understanding that none of that is entirely under my control, and having less and less influence as they get older.
The greatest influence I can have is how I live my life, because actions speak louder than words. That means being healthy, and emotionally balanced, which is clearly not slavishly dedicating my life to someone else.
The philosophy of "live your life for your kids" is more about judging parents when things go awry (often through no specific parenting fault) than offering helpful advice for people trying to parent, and in fact if you try to follow it, it turns out to be very poor advice.
I meant more in the sense that every decision you make needs to at the very least take the kid into consideration. When you have a kid it makes everything more expensive, it changes where and how you go on holiday, it changes where and how you go out to eat, etc. When you change careers you risk leaving a kid homeless, not just yourself. When you move to a different country you're forcing that kid to adapt, not just yourself. Etc.
And that is pretty much all true to an extent. It is largely not what I see from folks who say your kids become your whole life. I'm happy to take my kids into account, but I also leave plenty of space to live for me, too.
Though I will say you still have to go on some vacations by yourself because a vacation with kids is anything but a vacation.
Once you have a child you are in the hook for them until the day that you or they die
That's not the same thing at all. And not really true, either.
If you think there’s a magic age where you shed the responsibility of a child then you shouldn’t have had one. Bringing life into this world is rightfully the most burdensome experience
I have 5 and they are all doing great, thanks, though 2 are still in the house. Burdensome? Fuck people make parenting sound awful. It's awesome and I love it. Even the parts that are a struggle.