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105

How often do you admit you were wrong? (startrek.website)

submitted 5 days ago by jtrek@startrek.website to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

103 comments fedilink hide all child comments

As the title says, how often do you admit you're wrong? Is it different when it's a factual dispute versus something more subjective?

I make an effort to concede early if I'm in error. I think because my mother almost never admits fault. She'll fall back to "that's not what I meant" or similar deflections first, and that's really annoying.

The last big factual error I made was about the distance of walking, and that's where I learned about Taxicab Geometry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry ).

I think some people believe admitting fault is a sign of weakness, but I find it's more of a power move. It takes strength to do it, and people can tell when you're sweating and desperate. Usually it leads to resolving the conflict faster and cheaper, too.

(I expect some people will feel the urge to reply they're never wrong. I'll file that under never admits fault.)

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[–] JapaneseJudas@fedinsfw.app 1 points 12 hours ago

Early and often. I used to be one of those people who would just never admit if I'm wrong, grew up with them for sure. Learned it's WAY less stressful to just admit the moment you realize you're wrong.

That said, I use devils advocating to figure out what my actual opinions are, so I will argue positions I'm not 100% sure of pretty adamantly. Always seems to throw people when we debate for 20 minutes, me passionately defending my stance and then at the end I'm like "huh, yep. You right." Most people think I'm fucking with them or something and keep trying to argue and I'm just like "yep, 100% agree".

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 1 points 19 hours ago

Quite often but I find that if I admit I'm wrong but the other person never does then I stop when im around them.

[–] Strider@lemmy.world 62 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

All the time. People tend not to take it well but that seems their problem.

Also it's one of the things destroying politics.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Also it’s one of the things destroying politics.

That's often the previous stop on this train of thought. There are maga people that in their secret heart know they've made a mistake, but they struggle to come to terms with that. Though that also carries the fear of losing all their social bonds and being rejected by the group.

[–] Strider@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Exactly, it's two sided trained behavior. On one side, no guilt is admitted leading to all downsides of never learning and on the other side there's a ruthless expectation. It can never work.

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

usually it takes me a while to contemplate what the other person just said and whether they're actually right. sadly by then they're mostly gone so i can't tell them.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 4 points 3 days ago

We'll find out if I am ever wrong. 😤

[–] quinacridone@mander.xyz 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is something I need to work on, and its more apparent to me after having a conversation with my mother recently.

She said something quite unpleasant to my bf, and when I said how hurtful it was to both of us I was met with her denial, her refusal to see how hurtful it was and it was my fault for being upset, and also that I should just move on and forget about it

If she'd said that it came out wrong, or was sorry to have said something that had landed in a hurtful way etc that's all I/we would have needed

Unfortunately i can see this attitude in myself, in the fact I find it near impossible to apologise for anything

I think my mother has a lot of her own issues around this, and I have my own 'version' because of my issues (my autism, and the fact that she's my mum)

So I'm now going to do my best to rethink my behaviour and do some self reflection...

I really don't want to be like my mother at all

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 2 points 3 days ago

I really don’t want to be like my mother at all

I think this is a big motivator for me. I've seen how aggravating it is when someone refuses to admit fault, continuously reaches for excuses and justifications and lies, rather than just shrug and say "Oh. Seems like you were right." Hell, you don't even have to explicitly say "I was wrong" most of the time.

[–] residentoflaniakea@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 5 days ago

I try to express my wrongness in a casual way in front of my child or children in general. I aim for them to take away that it's not a big deal and there is no big stakes in always being right. And if I am right I try to argue facts and attempt to leave personal stakes out of it.

[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Every time someone is able to convince me I'm wrong, which is not hard to do, I tend to consider things logically, so empirical evidence that I'm wrong will make me flip immediately. Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument. Which is very unfortunate because I'm wrong quite often, and it only takes one person pointing at actual evidence that I'm wrong to make me realize that, yet the majority of my disagreements online end up at an impasse with the person refusing to find common ground to build the debate up.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument

One thing I struggle to remember sometimes is someone can make a bad argument, but what they're arguing for can still be true.

I used to work with a guy that would argue with me, and sometimes at the end he'd be like "I actually agree with your point, but I wanted you to be right for solid reasons"

Of course, it's also very common for people to be making bad arguments because they're just feeling stuff, and they're pulling together whatever words come close to capturing that right now.

[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

Yes, bad arguments can be made about true statements, but people need to understand that you won't convince anyone with bad arguments, and that discrediting an argument is not the same as discrediting the statement or attacking the person who made it.

For example, just the other day there was a thread about how pitbulls are supposedly more aggressive than other breeds, but the argument they used was "they're a minority of the population, yet cause the majority of fatalities, therefore they're aggressive", which is a TERRIBLE argument that discards all other possible explanations for the observed statistics. It may be true that pitbulls are more aggressive than other dogs, but that argument will never convince me as it's just plain wrong. And pointing out just how absurd the argument is brought up a bunch of angry people asserting pitbulls are aggressive and attacking me personally for discrediting the logic.

I used to work with a guy that would argue with me, and sometimes at the end he'd be like "I actually agree with your point, but I wanted you to be right for solid reasons"

Yeah, I do that as well, I call it playing devil's advocate, it's helpful to be sure the decisions you're reaching are actually the best ones.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I actually usually admit if I'm wrong, but I think I don't if it's a thing where it's obvious I was wrong and the other party is holding it over my head. It's a character flaw but also I don't really know how to deal with that situation because admitting I'm wrong to a person doing that, in my mind, gives them permission to blame me for anything else adjacent to the situation, which is usually unfair.

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[–] wador@lemmy.zip 14 points 5 days ago

My mother never admitted that she was wrong. I don't want to be like that to my kids or any one else.

I can get defensive, but with some after thought I will admit I was wrong.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think that it's natural for people to think they admit when they're wrong, but it's also natural to not admit it. As humans we don't make decisions based on logic, we do it based on emotions. We then instead explain our decisions with logic. I think the usual way people's minds change is that they'll effectively be convinced of something but won't really admit or accept it (or even be consciously aware of it), but then the next time the topic comes up they'll have the new opinion.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I read an article once about how people change their minds. It cited a long term study that found people who changed their stance on big issues (eg: abortion) often didn't remember they had ever held the opposite opinion. Not only do people not like to admit changing their minds, sometimes they can't even consciously realize.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 2 days ago

You may like this VSauce video about this topic called The Future of Reasoning. I spent a lot of time in 2020 and 2021 arguing with people online about covid and election fraud. I was under the impression that if someone just calmly, gently, respectfully laid out why they were wrong they'd accept it. I mean, for goodness's sake, one of the claims I responded to was someone saying something about X number of people voted in some county but there aren't that many people registered there. I told them it's easy to debunk and that I just searched Google for the county's official website and voter registration numbers and, as expected, they were different and higher than the number of people who voted. You wanna know what their response was? "Google is biased." Even though the information wasn't from Google, that's just how I found the site. (And I probably even used duckduckgo but didn't want to explain that lmao, point still stands.)

This video came to me after I'd already made the conscious decision to just stop doing it for my own mental health. It was really impactful.

https://youtu.be/_ArVh3Cj9rw

Perhaps the most ironic (or unironic) thing is that had I seen this before I had that experience, I may have disagreed with the video.

[–] RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works 10 points 5 days ago

When I'm wrong ... I admit I'm wrong. No shame in being wrong about something.

[–] vinnymac@lemmy.world 11 points 5 days ago

One of the best interview questions rarely asked. I hate working with people who have to always be right.

[–] neidu3@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

As often as I am actually wrong.

Tap for spoiler

Which of course is NEVER!

[–] TryingToBeGood@reddthat.com 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Whenever I'm wrong 😀

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[–] kinther@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

When I am wrong and there is evidence?

It makes sense to me, because you learned something.

[–] Gonzako@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Never (I rarely speak)

[–] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I tell people I hate being wrong, so the sooner I am corrected or can correct myself the better.

And the answer is... whenever I'm wrong. I am fairly diligent about thinking through what I say and do, but everybody makes mistakes or lacks knowledge, so I am quick to admit being wrong when I am.

Also, counterintuitively, quickly and casually admitting to being wrong often serves to make people forget you were wrong in the first place. My wife and I have had conversations where she admits being wrong (after entirely too much argument), and comments about how I'm never wrong. And I tell her I'm wrong all the time, I just admit it quickly instead of making a big deal about it, so it's not very memorable. (As we've gotten older, those conversations have become more rare, but she still had me 3D print a medal and trophy wall mount, where she gets a "You Were Right" medal or a trophy each time she's right... like when she convinced me to take my vomiting dog to the vet at night on a weekend and saved his life, and ended up with a dachshund trophy for her wall)

[–] quinacridone@mander.xyz 3 points 3 days ago

I love the fact that you have a 3d printed dachshund trophy for your wife's trophy wall

[–] ivanafterall@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

All the fucking time. "I don't know" are the three most-important words. It's pretty much the key to everything, you can't improve without it.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There have definitely been times in my life I refused to admit it. It’s more common if people arguing against me are inflammatory: “LOL, you absolute moron! Take a look at this: (well-researched study)”

I think most recent was doubt towards the accusation Chet Faliszek opposed SKG. I still think it’s not quite as clear cut as being an industry shill, but the guy clearly expects more good faith from major publishers than the rest of us do (having worked for the best one).

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 1 points 3 days ago

It’s more common if people arguing against me are inflammatory: “LOL, you absolute moron! Take a look at this: (well-researched study)”

I try to remember that "The worst person you know just made an excellent point" onion post for times like that.

[–] tigermountain@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

Once I realize it I will admit it. I kind of like it because it opens up a little spot in my head that's eager to be filled with better information.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 days ago

On the Internet? Almost never, I like arguing.

With people I actually know? All the time.

[–] yermaw@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Pretty much daily. I will do it every time I know im wrong. Sometimes I'll be wrong and not realise it and look like a tube later, but thats life.

The only time I wont willingly admit it is if the other guy is a prick and it won't do to give them an inch.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 2 points 3 days ago

The only time I wont willingly admit it is if the other guy is a prick and it won’t do to give them an inch.

At the risk of being seen as a prick myself, I feel like I hear the siren song of that behavior, but man is it unhealthy.

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Daily.

Whenever's there's a disagreement I'll at least entertain that I might be wrong.

Being wrong and not knowing it feels exactly like being right. You wouldn't know.

Nevermind situations that are more about perspectives than actually binary right/wrong.

[–] cute_cookie_dough@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

I usually admit right away because the more you deny it the bigger the lie and the problem become

[–] melsaskca@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

Whenever I'm wrong. I'm more interested in the truth than my feelings.

[–] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 days ago

When I'm wrong, I always admit it immediately.

It just hasn't happened yet /s

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

All the time...

Being wrong is the pre-requiest to learning something.

If you live your whole life only running into shit you already know, what the fuck is the point?

What makes it confusing is someone that lived a life like that, is gonna accumulate a shit ton of random knowledge. To the point people think of them as a "know it all" when it's just the normal result of an inquisitive life.

Basically, the people that can't admit they're wrong never learn anything except how to keep arguing longer than the person trying to help them. There's people walking around everyday that think they understand things, because everyone who knows better also knows explaining ain't worth the time.

[–] Iconoclast@feddit.uk 8 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I can't think of a single time someone has admitted to having been wrong about something and me thinking less of them because it. It's always the opposite yet it's still so painful being in that spot yourself.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I was talking about this with someone a while ago and they suggested that some people's lived experiences have been more... abusive. Like as a child if they made a mistake their parents treated them like shit. Now they have that untreated trauma deep in their personality. When they make a mistake like making a reservation at the wrong time, they subconsciously think it's going to be like when their dad screamed at them, smacked them, and sent them to bed without dinner. So they lie and prevaricate to avoid that.

I don't know how often that kind of early childhood trauma is the root of the behavior, but if that is happening that's really sad.

[–] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 5 points 5 days ago

I have my suspicions that my ex is like this because of bad parenting.

When my baby nephew tries to stack his stacking rings, my family praises him even if he has the order wrong. It's how babies learn.

I suspect that people who can't admit when they're wrong had parents who told them not to do a task unless they could do it right the first time

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[–] nilzen@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

wrong? what does that mean?

[–] Malyca@lemmy.zip 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I try very hard to never be wrong, but, like all of us, I fail often. I have a scholar brain, I love learning new things, so if I'm wrong that's an opportunity to learn something, makes it easier for me I guess.

[–] blackbrook@mander.xyz 7 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I'd like to believe I do it every time I recognize that I am wrong. Equally as important, I think, it to constantly admit, to yourself, and to others where appropriate, that you could be wrong.

The fallibility of human memory and reasoning is enormous, even for very smart people. I think few people properly appreciate this. If you develop that appreciation it is really trivial to admit you are wrong, it's like admitting that you ate.

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[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Whenever I am wrong. So pretty often, since I learn best by making mistakes.

ETA I do get defensive when someone is mean about it. With my ex it was harder because he mocked relentlessly and though he could dish it, could not take it. Nice in plenty of ways but so mean in others. With husband now, and at every job I've had, it's no big deal.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 3 points 4 days ago

narcissist do that, they wont admit, and will just double down.

[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

often. usually, when it's something I misjudged. there's no shame in it - I had x information, I thought it would be a good idea to do y. I forgot to consider z. can't win 'em all. or yep I screwed I up I did these calculations / tasks wrong because I was rushing.

it's harder when it's an "oh shit yeah I was out of line" thing, but I do it whenever I can because I genuinely want to know if I acted appropriately or not

I will always own up to being wrong if I agree that I was wrong. I will be an absolute pain in your ass if I think I'm being blamed for something that's unfair/untrue.

[–] Ryanmiller70@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 days ago

I'll admit I'm wrong more often than I'll say I was right. I know I'm stupid and most likely got 0 idea what I'm talking about.

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